Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 18th Jul 2012 21:12 UTC
Windows The moment Microsoft announced it would lock other browsers out of being installed on Windows RT, we all knew regulatory bodies the world over were wringing their hands. Today, this has been confirmed: in the wake of an investigation into Microsoft not complying with the existing antitrust rulings regarding browser choice, the EU has also announced it's investigating Windows 8 x86 and Windows 8 RT (ARM).
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RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by No it isnt on Wed 18th Jul 2012 22:18 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
No it isnt
Member since:
2005-11-14

Because Microsoft was investigated for and found guilty of abusing their monopoly in operating systems to obstruct competition in browsers. Apple hasn't been investigated for that, and I can't see how the situation is the same: even though iOS dominates the tablet, it is far from dominating the web -- it's actually closer to Linux than to OS X in market share, i.e. insignificant.

Remember back when the web was 'designed for IE6'? That's what happens when a monopolist is able to kill its competition.

Edited 2012-07-18 22:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by shmerl on Thu 19th Jul 2012 00:09 in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

and I can't see how the situation is the same: even though iOS dominates the tablet, it is far from dominating the web


Well, that's easy to point out - codecs. Apple dominates the web with allowing usage of only MP3 and H.264 on their devices for web audio/video, and banning browsers that could allow using open codecs (Vorbis, Theora, VP8 and etc.). This way they indirectly push Web developers to use these closed codecs if they want to target Apple mobile devices (which are a big part of the market and can hardly be ignored).

Essentially Web publishers are forced to encode their content twice - in open codecs for normal browsers, and in closed codecs for mobile Safari (same story will be with Windows RT it seems). Encoding in closed codecs requires licensing if publishing has commercial purpose. Plus doubling hosting space costs money and less efficient closed codecs waste more energy, being bad for the environment. So in essence Apple does dominate the web with their ban on alternative browsers for iOS.

IE on mobile MS devices has the same issue. On the desktop, IE can be remedied with installing plugins to support open codecs, while on mobile devices with their crazy restrictions this is impossible.

Edited 2012-07-19 00:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Fergy on Thu 19th Jul 2012 08:14 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Well, that's easy to point out - codecs. Apple dominates the web with allowing usage of only MP3 and H.264 on their devices for web audio/video, and banning browsers that could allow using open codecs (Vorbis, Theora, VP8 and etc.). This way they indirectly push Web developers to use these closed codecs if they want to target Apple mobile devices (which are a big part of the market and can hardly be ignored).

Agreed. On top of the stupid H.264 and mp3 requirements I also get more and more websites that want Chrome or IE for 'the best experience' or even to function. In that way Chrome has joined IE6.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by No it isnt on Thu 19th Jul 2012 10:33 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Yes, that's what I feared as well, back when I thought there would be something in all the hype. But the iPad isn't taking over the web, it segments it into, well, web and apps. Giving iOS users a crippled web experience just encourages them to pay for "premium" app content.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by zima on Wed 25th Jul 2012 23:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple dominates the web with allowing usage of only MP3 and H.264 [...] they indirectly push Web developers to use these closed codecs if they want to target Apple mobile devices [...]
less efficient closed codecs waste more energy, being bad for the environment

AAC more than MP3. And open codecs are a plenty nice enough concept that you don't have to make up issues with closed ones - perf is fine, they are actually usually best supported.

Overall, it's hardly only Apple, and not really too big long-term problem (especially with open codecs providing some pressure...) - big players behind most consumer toys are also the ones behind mpeg-la, they will protect it, the support will be there. That is the point, and why they will continue pushing it.

All new TV standards use h264 + aac (well, or a bit earlier mpeg standards, for now, if their particular variant was introduced a bit "too soon" in places), and none uses the likes of vp8. h264 will be the standard for most of the rest of your life, or all of it, accept it (which also means that its ~patents/closed issues on the web will go away relatively soon)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by bassbeast on Sat 21st Jul 2012 19:01 in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

How can you not see how they are similar? Desktops are a mature market like washers, people don't replace them until they break. Mobile is the new desktop and Apple has taken every page out of the Gates playbook and THEN some. Even in his wildest dreams did Gates even think about locking out third parties completely yet Apple, which just FYI owns the top of both the pad and the phone markets by a pretty large margin, does so and nobody even blinks.

I'm sorry but Thom is right, there needs to be an investigation but not of MSFT but the whole mobile industry. All they will do is bum another check from MSFT while Apple take their place in this new market and if they aren't careful just as MSFT was investigated years after the companies that could have competed closed their doors so too will Apple get a slap on the wrist while the competition dies.

I mean for the love of Pete Jobs was able to single handedly destroy Flash on mobile, which just so happened to give developers a way to bypass the appstore and you don't think that is significant?

Reply Parent Score: 3