Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 18th Jul 2012 21:12 UTC
Windows The moment Microsoft announced it would lock other browsers out of being installed on Windows RT, we all knew regulatory bodies the world over were wringing their hands. Today, this has been confirmed: in the wake of an investigation into Microsoft not complying with the existing antitrust rulings regarding browser choice, the EU has also announced it's investigating Windows 8 x86 and Windows 8 RT (ARM).
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RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar
by tomcat on Thu 19th Jul 2012 20:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Drumhellar"
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

Antitrust matters aren't about killing monopolies in existing categories, it's about making sure those monopolies aren't used to extend it into new markets.


You're erecting a strawman. Nothing I said contradicts that point.

What Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 is text book antitrust behaviour: They use their x86 monopoly to push Metro, to reap the rewards (mindshare, applications) on ARM devices and in the mobile space.


Bullshit. Having x86 monopoly power doesn't give Microsoft any leverage to extend its dominance into the ARM market. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Microsoft can't strong-arm OEMs to tie x86 and ARM together. It can't force consumers to buy ARM machines. It's an entirely separate market and category. Go back and read the market definition for the antitrust trial. It's specifically for "x86-based operating systems". Not ARM operating systems. Furthermore, apps written for x86 won't run natively on ARM. The apps need to be ported/recompiled for ARM.

I'm sure that you'll come back with some nebulous statement about how the common Metro interface, itself, somehow magically transforms into market power on ARM. But that's complete bullshit. The interface gives Microsoft no more power than, say, Google's standardization on the Java runtime on Android gives it power over the ARM market.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Alfman on Thu 19th Jul 2012 20:47 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

tomcat,


"Bullshit. Having x86 monopoly power doesn't give Microsoft any leverage to extend its dominance into the ARM market. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Microsoft can't strong-arm OEMs to tie x86 and ARM together. It can't force consumers to buy ARM machines."

Watch that temper! I think the post you responded to was right, actually. Microsoft isn't forcing consumers to buy ARM machines, but they've already used their power to negatively influence ARM UEFI specs to the detriment of competitors. And there's certainly room for microsoft to pressure ARM OEMS by using their status as a x86 monopoly.

I'm not asserting that they ARE doing it, but clearly they COULD. I am not privy to the backroom deals, but hypothetically MS might give additional x86 discounts to OEMs who bundle only Windows with their ARM products. This is certainly not out of the realm of possibilities and it's clearly within the realm of anti-trust.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Comment by Drumhellar
by tomcat on Thu 19th Jul 2012 21:20 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Microsoft isn't forcing consumers to buy ARM machines, but they've already used their power to negatively influence ARM UEFI specs to the detriment of competitors.


Not at all. UEFI doesn't prevent OEMs from installing any other operating system. The OEM gets to decide what gets installed on a device (Linux, Windows, etc); and, by extension, the consumer gets to decide which device they want. The consumer is under no pressure to choose any particular device.

And there's certainly room for microsoft to pressure ARM OEMS by using their status as a x86 monopoly. I'm not asserting that they ARE doing it, but clearly they COULD. I am not privy to the backroom deals, but hypothetically MS might give additional x86 discounts to OEMs who bundle only Windows with their ARM products. This is certainly not out of the realm of possibilities and it's clearly within the realm of anti-trust.


You have a strange definition of "pressure". Offering OEMs a financial incentive to install Windows everywhere isn't banned by the consent decree. What is banned is (1) charging per-processor royalties even if the OEM doesn't install Windows, and (2) charging the OEM more than other OEMs if they don't install Windows (punitive terms). But Microsoft isn't doing either one of those things. OEMs are under no pressure to accept Microsoft's financial incentives; in fact, they're free to accept counter-proposals from any other OS vendor (Red Hat, Google, etc). That is the very essence of competition and, while Microsoft's size certainly gives them an advantage in offering lucrative financial terms, the court doesn't guarantee that competitors will be able to match all others. And nobody is asserting that Microsoft is "dumping" its software in the market at below-cost. So, quite frankly, you're wrong.

Edited 2012-07-19 21:22 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Drumhellar
by MollyC on Thu 19th Jul 2012 21:26 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

Oh please.
The ARM UEFI specs aren't relevant.
Android tablets are still going to be produced by those OEMs. What do the UEFI specs of WindowsRT ARM devices have to do with Adroid ARM devices? Nothing.

And if you want to boot linux or BSD or Solaris or whatever random OS on an ARM device, but you can't do it on a Windows RT device because of UEFI, then just get an Android or ChromeOS ARM device and install your random OS on that.

WindowsRT ARM decices are complete solutions. They are complete integrated hardware/software devices. They are not meant to be able to run random OSes, just like the iPad isn't meant to run random OSes. Such devices run with the OS they come with, because the OS is part and parcel of the device as a complete integrated hardware/software solution. You don't like it? Then get different ARM device; they'll be plenty available for you to play with.

Reply Parent Score: 2