Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 21st Jul 2012 23:06 UTC
In the News Okay, so this is entirely new to me. Sparrow is was an email client for Mac OS X and iOS (and Windows), which brought a decent Gmail experience to these platforms - as opposed to Apple's own not-so-good Gmail support and Google's Gmail iOS application which, well, is just a webpage. Google has now acquired Sparrow, and basically all hell has broken loose, to the point of Rian van der Merwe writing that 'we' lost "faith in a philosophy that we thought was a sustainable way to ensure a healthy future for independent software development, where most innovation happens".
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Whining because they are Apple fanboys?
by ozonehole on Sun 22nd Jul 2012 00:06 UTC
ozonehole
Member since:
2006-01-07

This is a good post, Thom. I went and read the original story, and I honestly don't see what he's whining about. Like you said, he got everything he paid for, and then some, and this is for an app that costs US$15. The only thing I can conclude is that it's killing him that Google seems to have won. The guy is an Apple fanboy, and Apple/Microsoft hates Google, and thus anything that is good for Google is bad for Apple, or something like that, causing his head to explode.

Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.

Reply Score: 15

Macrat Member since:
2006-03-27


Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


All Mac users are using open source as open source apps come with OS X.

http://www.apple.com/opensource/

Reply Parent Score: 3

rufwork Member since:
2012-07-23

The important thing to remember is that the OS is using BSD-licensed stuff under the hood. That means it was open source, but isn't any more.

The BSD is far too permissive, and doesn't protect software. I'm surprised it's considered an Open-as-in-Free license at all sometimes. "Please plagiarize my code and call it your own! I'm begging you!"

Reply Parent Score: 1

shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


Not exactly. I'd rather compare it to trying to convert hardcore money worshipers to altruists.

Edited 2012-07-22 02:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 8

phti Member since:
2012-06-02

uh-oh, it looks like they don't accept lines of source code as a payment at the grocery store.

Reply Parent Score: 2

sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

Not exactly. I'd rather compare it to trying to convert hardcore money worshipers to altruists.


It's funny 'cause the biggest money worshipers use to be the biggest altruists: Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Carlos Slim and so on.

Reply Parent Score: 1

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

> that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.

Not exactly. I'd rather compare it to trying to convert hardcore money worshipers to altruists.

No, it's probably quite apt comparison, actually... have you already forgot http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13416272 ? ("A team of neuroscientists scanned the brain of an Apple fan and it showed that the brand was stimulating the same parts of the brain as religious imagery does in people of faith"

Reply Parent Score: 2

krreagan Member since:
2008-04-08

Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


Your complete ignorance of the Apple ecosystem is showing.

OSX and iOS are built on OSS.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Spiron Member since:
2011-03-08

Yes, but don't tell the fanboi's that, it'll shatter their perception of the universe forever

Reply Parent Score: 0

NuxRo Member since:
2010-09-25

"Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


Your complete ignorance of the Apple ecosystem is showing.

OSX and iOS are built on OSS.
"

It's irrelevant what they build it on.

Reply Parent Score: 7

_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

"Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


Your complete ignorance of the Apple ecosystem is showing.

OSX and iOS are built on OSS.
"

Certainly, but I'd say many do not know this, or are particularly blind to this, especially at the graphical application level.

Reply Parent Score: 3

mrstep Member since:
2009-07-18

Whining about the makers of an email client being acquired by Google seems asinine.

Of course, open source... Sure, go ahead and use the fantastic open source alternatives instead. The exceptionally high quality of OSS (far exceeding that of any paid OS or application) has been demonstrated over and over again, so it's amazing anyone pays for software nowadays, right? (OK, oddly the highest quality open source projects seem to be the ones that companies contribute time & resources to...)

Alternately, swallow the major $5 investment and be prepared to move on at some point. Nobody lines up to build you a car for free or drive you around town for free, so this Stallman expectation that people should give away their work for free because it's software is just f*cking ludicrous.

Reply Parent Score: 1

jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

Good point, funny thing is that OpenSource actually benefit big companies like IBM, RedHat, Google, even Apple and Microsoft. I'm not against or in favor of Open-source is basically the same thing and is up to the developer to decide. I think the article is overly sensationalistic. The "dangers" of closed source, no one is going to die or go bankruptcy just because Google bought an email client software company. At the end it just means that Google is trying to make some money out of Apple ecosystem. Funny thing is that even with all the Open-source advocates no one has develop an Open-source email client for the Appstore that matches a closed source one (Yes you can use Open-source for the Appstore)

Only a developer could care about Open or Closed Source because it can help them learn or develop, what consumers actually care about is the fact that they won't pay a dime for someone else hard work. By the way I'm not trying to look like a saint I have used pirated software in the past and I feel ashamed for that.

Reply Parent Score: 2

gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Of course, open source... Sure, go ahead and use the fantastic open source alternatives instead. The exceptionally high quality of OSS (far exceeding that of any paid OS or application) has been demonstrated over and over again, so it's amazing anyone pays for software nowadays, right?

If you're talking about something Gimp vs Photoshop, then yes, I'd ride along with your sarcasm. No graphics/imaging professional would actually use Gimp.

But with regards to Sparrow (which I have used) on OSX, I don't quite agree. It worked well enough on iOS (mainly because the users felt like second class citizens when comparing the iOS Gmail app to the Android version), but was a complete waste of money on OSX since there were numerous free (both cost and license) alternatives out there. Personally, I thought it wasn't even good enough to lick Mutt's paws.

Edited 2012-07-22 06:48 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

oddly the highest quality open source projects seem to be the ones that companies contribute time & resources to..


So? Nobody ever said Open Source software could only be developed by amateurs. Open Source developed by paid developers working for large companies is a sustainable model that has been demonstrated to work over and over again. Why is that a problem?

Reply Parent Score: 12

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I'd say it was a good post too...with one exception and that is this: Frankly FOSS doesn't "guarantee" anything anymore than proprietary, it only gives the possibility, nothing more, that it may continue.

How many projects are lying dead right now on SourceForge? If one were to look at the top 100 FOSS programs from 2000, how many of them are still around?

Honestly i don't know the answers but I bet many are gone because just using the software doesn't magically make you a developer, nor does it give the fans enough capital to hire a full time dev team to support it.

In the end i say just use what works and if they go away tomorrow? Well if the software was in any way popular I'm sure someone will come along happy to take those users, if not? Well then you'll just have to find another program.

Reply Parent Score: 7

Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

I'd say it was a good post too...with one exception and that is this: Frankly FOSS doesn't "guarantee" anything anymore than proprietary, it only gives the possibility, nothing more, that it may continue.

That is the point. Duh.

Moreover, given how popular Sparrow was, I think it would have had no problem going on.

The point is that it can't. That. Is. The. Point.

Reply Parent Score: 5

Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

How many projects are lying dead right now on SourceForge? If one were to look at the top 100 FOSS programs from 2000, how many of them are still around?

We have to remember that a lot of programs simply have not use nowadays. In other cases, a lot of users have found better free/libre alternative programs, etc.

We have to be aware that Sourceforge is a not a good representative for long-life free/libre software, a lot of programs are developed and stopped there. Unless it's a specific case, people have better results going with selected software and combined efforts, I can talk about my case and I use
- The Linux kernel.
- VLC.
- Firefox.
- Selected programs from http://www.kde.org/applications/internet/ http://www.kde.org/applications/graphics/ http://www.kde.org/applications/multimedia/ http://www.kde.org/applications/utilities/ http://www.kde.org/applications/system/
- Etc.
since many years ago. It has been a safe bet in my case, but anyone can also benefit from equivalent software selections, make things to improve software, etc.

Edited 2012-07-22 11:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

if not? Well then you'll just have to find another program.

That's another problem :-( . A lot of proprietary software sellers are not interested in the free market and... will put severe obstacles to you and me to stop us finding another program :-(

Some of them have been sent to trial and convicted, for example:
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/2000/PX...
Emails about the "problem" of "Office documents to be rendered very well by other peoples browsers" and employees being given the order "make sure that Office very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities".

Reply Parent Score: 3

quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Think your missing the point, he's "whining" about the loss of innocence and completely misunderstanding the world he lives in. Hell, if I thought that somehow having an 'ethical' position of actually paying small developers for apps was the answer, for all the ills that permeate development and use of software, only to realise it wasn't, I'd be a little miffed.

It's a conundrum to be sure and I don't know the answer. As a user, think we're f'd either way and the future looks bleak.

Reply Parent Score: 1

scarr Member since:
2010-11-07

This is a good post, Thom. I went and read the original story, and I honestly don't see what he's whining about. Like you said, he got everything he paid for, and then some, and this is for an app that costs US$15. The only thing I can conclude is that it's killing him that Google seems to have won. The guy is an Apple fanboy, and Apple/Microsoft hates Google, and thus anything that is good for Google is bad for Apple, or something like that, causing his head to explode.

Your suggestion - that Apple users consider open source - is like asking a group of religious fanatics to convert to atheism.


Right... so this guy is disappointed in a small company getting bought out and killed, and you took that and blamed him for being a frothing fan boy. And just for good measure, you brought up religion in your comment. Might as well really polarize this conversation even more!

More disappointing then your comment is that this community thought what you said was worth up voting. You'd think someone taking the extremes like this would get down voted to oblivion. You'd think people would see you are trying to get reactions from people (like I just did). I think I'm done here... go ahead and down vote this, whatever.

Reply Parent Score: -1

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, there's some research suggesting that Apple devotion might be quite similar to ridiculousness of old-style mythologies...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13416272 "A team of neuroscientists scanned the brain of an Apple fan and it showed that the brand was stimulating the same parts of the brain as religious imagery does in people of faith"

Reply Parent Score: 2