Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 2nd Aug 2012 22:36 UTC
Windows Now that Windows 8 has gone gold, Microsoft can move on to other things. With Windows 8, the most important of these is probably to make sure people know how to actually use it. Metro is filled to the brim with hard-to-discover features, but Microsoft has a plan. Will it be enough?
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RE: Bleh... not enough.
by Nelson on Sat 4th Aug 2012 00:15 UTC in reply to "Bleh... not enough."
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

I'd have to disagree, the Windows Runtime is just a new flavor of API presented in a better way. Its all COM underneath. All of the subsystems that make up Windows are there.

There are just now two traversable paths for development. Traditional Win32(For legacy app maintenance mostly) and the new Windows Runtime for modern apps.

I think a lot of the grumbling around Windows 8 is because we've been getting half of the story. This fall the hardware will rise to match the software.

All in ones will be touch enabled, mice will be touch sensitive and laptop track pads will be optimized for Windows 8.

I will concede that using current hardware, things are slightly more frustrating, though not terribly, its always something that either Microsoft or the App developer can engineer around.

The grand story here I think is the fact that Windows will finally have a centralized software repository and an OS managed installation experience. It should mean a lot less rot and issues with corrupted states due to faulty uninstallers, and a lot less malware.

I think Microsoft if you look at their SDKs and general direction, is more Androidesque in developer freedom (look at huge strides in WP8 leaked SDK which shows a lot more dev freedom) and I hope they'll keep those ideals over time.

I think the Linux Desktop is in an abysmal state right now. KDE is frankly a mess and Gnome is floundering. Maybe someone will do something disruptive soon to change all that, but I don't think most other OSes are better off wrt the future.

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE[2]: Bleh... not enough.
by ze_jerkface on Sat 4th Aug 2012 02:15 in reply to "RE: Bleh... not enough."
RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by Nelson on Sat 4th Aug 2012 02:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Will you shut up already, you annoying little troll. You stopped being rational about 80 mentions of Sinofsky ago.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by Nelson on Sat 4th Aug 2012 02:44 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Also, most Windows sales are on new PCs, not existing ones. There is a regular churn as people upgrade their entire hardware and not just the OS it came with.

Of course, don't let me get in the way of armchair CEO ze_jerk face

One startling prerequisite for being a smartass know it all is actually, you know, having some insight.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by bassbeast on Sat 4th Aug 2012 03:18 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Actually last numbers i could find had it between 4%-6% but that included POS and kiosks so I'd guesstimate around 2.5%, still dumb as hell. I just wish i could find the link again (it might be WinSupersite) where a Win 8 apologist did a review and was "Now we'll show how great Win 8 works with older hardware! Here we have this touch enabled Athlon laptop and see how great it runs?" and i of course LOLed since even when THEY try to sell Win 8 couldn't do it without touch!

In the end though we ALL know what it is, okay? Its a Hail Mary pass. MSFT is down by 20 points, the clock is running out, so they are gonna give it one last throw to try to gain some ground before the clock runs out. They really have nothing to lose as while PCs will not being going anywhere, despite what all the "post PC" pundits blather on about, what HAS happened is they went from being replaced every other year because they would struggle to run the latest software to insanely overpowered. Hell is there anything Joe average or Bill businessman does that won't run just fine on that Phenom I triple desktop or Core Duo laptop? Nope which is why they ain't buying.

So even though I think metro is deep fried garbage I can see why MSFT is doing this, as the smartphone/tablet market is going through their own MHz wars where a year and a half old device won't run the latest apps and they ain't getting a cent of that. Don't think it'll work but I can see why.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by lucas_maximus on Sat 4th Aug 2012 11:52 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I'm gonna go start a vegan restaurant in a part of Texas that is 99% meat eating.


That would be quite a good idea actually, since you would be the only place the Vegans would go, you would have a monopoly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Bleh... not enough.
by delta0.delta0 on Sat 4th Aug 2012 03:05 in reply to "RE: Bleh... not enough."
delta0.delta0 Member since:
2010-06-01

I think the Linux Desktop is in an abysmal state right now. KDE is frankly a mess and Gnome is floundering. Maybe someone will do something disruptive soon to change all that, but I don't think most other OSes are better off wrt the future.


Why is the Linux Desktop in an abysmal state ?
Why is KDE a mess ?

Backup your comments with some facts please, because I am sorry but maybe you wish the above was true, but that really isn't the case, in fact its the exact opposite the news about Valve porting Steam to Linux and them putting so much support into the Linux Desktop is huge news for the Linux Desktop and its acceptance into the main stream. If Linux runs the latest AAA games, what possible benefit does windows provide ?

KDE is great now and only getting better, the Linux Desktop is great and is only getting better. Gnome is going through a hard patch that much I do concede, but Gnome3 has the ground work to be a solid Desktop environment. E17 is finally getting stable releases. Wayland is progressing nicely, same with BTRFS, a proper next gen filesystem.

You forget this centralised software installation method you are so happy Microsoft is getting has been an intrinsic part of Linux for decades and we don't have a shitty registry system that gets bloated

As for your final comment about other Os'es Apples OSX Mountain Lion seems to have been met with universal praise, I cant see how they aren't doing "any better" if any thing they are doing much better with a market capital twice that of Microsoft, in fact larger than Microsoft and Google combined.

Also Google, no idea what direction they will take with android and chrome os, but that just adds more competition with Windows 8 on the desktop. Nexus 7 has received major praise and is selling out where ever it has been released, Android on the tablet market is now a success story. In fact android 4.1 is truly outstanding and the nexus 7 is excellent value.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by Nelson on Sat 4th Aug 2012 03:28 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I had a really long reply all written, but my Asus Transformer force closed the browser. Heh.

But to sum it up, I think KDE lacks a designer or 12, and a direction. Qt is in a questionable state. The Linux Desktop as a whole needs a unified rallying cry.

Its fine to have niches and fill them, but there needs to be a standard bearer somewhere. Let's stop rewriting the sound subsystem for the 12th time and work on fixing some gaping ux issues.

Don't think I'm saying the Linux Desktop is doomed, it just isn't good, at this point in time. Things will change. Look at what Valve is doing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Bleh... not enough.
by ze_jerkface on Sat 4th Aug 2012 20:11 in reply to "RE[2]: Bleh... not enough."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

KDE wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have to sit on top of X.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Bleh... not enough.
by tomcat on Mon 6th Aug 2012 17:47 in reply to "RE: Bleh... not enough."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I'd have to disagree, the Windows Runtime is just a new flavor of API presented in a better way. Its all COM underneath. All of the subsystems that make up Windows are there.


Moreover, WinRT provides access to these various subsystems across all language types -- C/C++, JavaScript Windows Web Applications (WWA), XAML, VB.NET, etc -- so you get the full power of Windows no matter what you code in. That's a big deal.

I think a lot of the grumbling around Windows 8 is because we've been getting half of the story. This fall the hardware will rise to match the software.


And this hardware is being held to a far more stringent standard than in the past.

All in ones will be touch enabled, mice will be touch sensitive and laptop track pads will be optimized for Windows 8.


It's going to be difficult to find machines that don't support touch beyond the next 3 years. People don't realize this yet.

I will concede that using current hardware, things are slightly more frustrating, though not terribly, its always something that either Microsoft or the App developer can engineer around.


This needs tuning. But they'll get plenty of feedback, and they clearly do listen; which is why we no longer have Active Desktop and other UI patterns which people didn't like.

The grand story here I think is the fact that Windows will finally have a centralized software repository and an OS managed installation experience. It should mean a lot less rot and issues with corrupted states due to faulty uninstallers, and a lot less malware.


Yes! That is the single biggest feature of this OS release. A store. Assuming that people only obtain software from the store, and Microsoft diligently monitors the store for malware, the overall user experience for users will be drastically better than today.

I think Microsoft if you look at their SDKs and general direction, is more Androidesque in developer freedom (look at huge strides in WP8 leaked SDK which shows a lot more dev freedom) and I hope they'll keep those ideals over time.


Well, I think it's a balance between developer freedom and user freedom. Windows 8 puts the user first. The developer doesn't get to play a lot of the tricks that they used to pull -- like stealing focus, sticking pop-ups in your face, jockeying for highest Z-order, using any device they want to use regardless of whether they were authorized to do so. Developers may not like that change because it diminishes their capabilities but, so what, computing is supposed to be about users, not developers. We're simply the guys who connect users with data. ;-)

I think the Linux Desktop is in an abysmal state right now. KDE is frankly a mess and Gnome is floundering. Maybe someone will do something disruptive soon to change all that, but I don't think most other OSes are better off wrt the future.


There are a certain number of people that will continue to use Linux no matter what the big players do. I salute their tenacity because Linux represents a different kind of openness; however, the end-to-end experience is often the thing that gets users excited. Unless the Linux desktop can nail that, it will remain fairly marginal as a desktop platform. Server? Different story.

Reply Parent Score: 2