Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 11th Aug 2012 17:22 UTC
Google Nobody needs a tablet, but many people still want a tablet. This is still the core differentiator between a 'real' computer and a tablet. At least in The Netherlands, you can't function in society without a desktop or laptop connected to the internet, so people need a computer. A tablet, though? Hence, the most common thing people have told me when they played with my iPad 2 is this: I'd love to have a tablet, but not for hundreds of euros. Enter Google's Nexus 7, the first 'cheap' tablet that doesn't just validate Android as a tablet platform, but also gives the iPad a run for its money.
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Reward Apple?
by UltraZelda64 on Mon 13th Aug 2012 19:47 UTC
UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

"I love high-density displays, and wanted to reward Apple for taking the plunge, especially since they managed to keep the price the same."

Why? Apple wants nothing more than to control you and keep everything you do on their computers, and they are attempting to do this with their walled garden approach to software, locked-down operating systems and suing every Android cell phone manufacturer out there in hopes of downright killing (instead of competing, as it should be) their main competitor. You've wrote many excellent articles on the patents lawsuits yourself. And yet... you still want to get the latest Apple tablet to "reward" them for technical progress? Something just doesn't add up here.

I say, reward Apple once they've completely stopped being assholes for at least a year and a half (have fun waiting!). Until then... avoid everything with their logo on it. But then, I guess I'm no longer fascinated by anything that the company does thanks to all their lawsuits and instead despise the company, and they've let it get to the point that technical marvels like high-res screens don't change anything to me, so maybe that's it.

Edited 2012-08-13 19:49 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Reward Apple?
by zlynx on Mon 13th Aug 2012 23:14 in reply to "Reward Apple?"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

Reward Apple because they seem to be the only computer manufacturer that actually innovates and does risky things successfully.

First computer I ever saw with a USB keyboard and mouse: Apple.

First computer I ever saw without a floppy drive: Apple.

First to use EFI on a consumer product: Apple.

First affordable and available really high resolution displays? Apple.

First to use Thunderbolt aka Lightpeak: Apple.

Every other PC manufacturer is so involved in shipping low priced product that nothing risky is done.

If they do manage something interesting, it is badly thought out and/or not marketed and/or abandoned after less than a year. Acer Iconia laptop with dual touchscreen anyone? How about those crazy-expensive 7 pound tablet computers running x86 Windows with an always-lost stylus and a mere 2 hour battery life?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Reward Apple?
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 14th Aug 2012 01:44 in reply to "RE: Reward Apple?"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

I wouldn't say all of those "innovations" you claimed were truly innovative, let alone very important changes. I mean, come on--they removed the floppy drive. Some truly groundbreaking, hi-tech moves there that would have never happened if it wasn't for the amazing Apple. [Not.] And for every one of these so-called innovations, they erode more of your freedom and lock you further into their devices. Yeah! Go Apple!

And ironically, one of those innovations--EFI--was directly responsible for making typical, generic x86 "PCs" made by Apple incompatible with everything else out there, while also paving the way for the extremely locked down hardware that has been materializing in recent years through the use of "trusted" (yeah right) computing. Again... go Apple!

Maybe I need to go out, bend over and buy an overpriced Apple product myself now. Take "their" form of "gotcha by the balls" computing right up the ass.

Edited 2012-08-14 01:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Reward Apple?
by ggiunta on Wed 15th Aug 2012 12:39 in reply to "RE: Reward Apple?"
ggiunta Member since:
2006-01-13

Yes, and EFI is an absolute nightmare for all multiboot needs...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Reward Apple?
by zima on Sat 18th Aug 2012 23:06 in reply to "RE: Reward Apple?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Reward Apple because they seem to be the only computer manufacturer that actually innovates and does risky things successfully.
First computer I ever saw with a USB [...] without a floppy drive [...] to use EFI on a consumer product [...] affordable and available really high resolution displays [...] Lightpeak: Apple.
Every other PC manufacturer is so involved in shipping low priced product that nothing risky is done.

All of those things were not developed by Apple, but by the industry at large (which simply doesn't rush the tech it developed, before it can be really useful, for some pointless PR). Apple "innovates and does risky things" only by piggybacking on advancements of the industry; also exploiting how Macs are just PCs now, they couldn't compete on their own.

Here, in the words of the messiah ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEXae1j6EY&feature=player_detailpag... ):
Apple had its head in the sand for the last many years [...] missed out [...] attitude of arrogance [...] the rest of the world passed us by [...] we need to bring the Mac up into the modern world [...] because we weren't first, because we didn't set the standards [...] this whole notion of being so proprietary in every facet what we do has really hurt us [...] reinvent the wheel our own way; and yeah it might be 10% better but usually it ended up being about 50% worse

Also, in the grand traditional of the faithful, you overlook history - the first computer without a floppy drive was probably Amiga CDTV. And, just like iMac, quite universally forcing people into a waste of buying an external floppy drive; in both cases it was simply way too early, without real alternative present yet - that is not innovation
(no pendrives, web access fledgling; if Apple threw into the box a few/dozen-MiB USB drive, that would be innovative; or at least CD writer as standard)

Plus, disconnected from the world at large in your Apple bubble, you have a weird meaning of "affordable"...

And let's not forget how that "innovation" of using a new industry-standard bus (instead of the totally inadequate Mac-legacy ADB), for keyboard & mouse, was accompanied by a) the dreadful "hockey puck" b) building into the keyboard a full USB hub ...only to give it just one port, occupied by a mouse.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Reward Apple?
by chiwaw on Tue 14th Aug 2012 05:45 in reply to "Reward Apple?"
chiwaw Member since:
2006-02-05

Apple produces the devices I most enjoy using and owning. The "walled garden" you mention is actually something I *want* on my portable devices. To the point that if I had to get an Android device, I'd probably stick to Kindle Fire because it has a somewhat more walled garden than the rest of the Android devices.

And whether you like it or not, Apple has more often been at the forefront of advancements than any other portable device makers. You make fun of getting rid of the floppy disk, but it IS an important detail. Sometimes having the guts of getting rid of legacy tech is almost as important getting new tech.

I agree with you on one thing tho: "suing every Android cell phone manufacturer". That little legal game is getting quite tiring and I just hope they'd stop already.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Reward Apple?
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 14th Aug 2012 08:52 in reply to "RE: Reward Apple?"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Apple produces the devices I most enjoy using and owning. The "walled garden" you mention is actually something I *want* on my portable devices.

Well, have at it. Enjoy. In some cases a bit of sandboxing is alright, but IMO Apple just goes too far, and their reasons for doing it are not something I agree with or would support.

And whether you like it or not, Apple has more often been at the forefront of advancements than any other portable device makers. You make fun of getting rid of the floppy disk, but it IS an important detail. Sometimes having the guts of getting rid of legacy tech is almost as important getting new tech.

The floppy disk has traditionally also been *the* universally-working way of doing such things as upgrading the BIOS, flashing device firmware, and use hard drive maintenance utilities. Alright, the big two hard drive manufacturers now have tiny CD images (in case your computer boots from CD without problems), but I'm not sure about the others. As for the removal of the floppy drive, it would have eventually happened anyway, so the fact that Apple was the one to cut the cord isn't exactly something to praise the dead Apple god for.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Reward Apple?
by zima on Sat 18th Aug 2012 23:56 in reply to "RE: Reward Apple?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple has more often been at the forefront of advancements than any other portable device makers. You make fun of getting rid of the floppy disk, but it IS an important detail. Sometimes having the guts of getting rid of legacy tech is almost as important getting new tech.

Don't you think that is flawed reasoning? You could say that to anything. Newton has no merit in discovering trigonometry, because someone would have figured out eventually ;)
Being the first at doing something IS major, no matter how "trivial" you think it is many years after the fact. Apple have been trailblazing a lot of the modern tech world, and that's absolutely admirable even if one hates their politics.

Apple packages, piggybacks on the advancements of the industry at large (which just doesn't rush its tech before it can be really useful, for some pointless PR). Before doing so, Macs had major problems competing...

As the messiah puts it ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEXae1j6EY&feature=player_detailpag... ):
Apple had its head in the sand for the last many years [...] missed out [...] attitude of arrogance [...] the rest of the world passed us by [...] we need to bring the Mac up into the modern world [...] because we weren't first, because we didn't set the standards [...] this whole notion of being so proprietary in every facet what we do has really hurt us [...] reinvent the wheel our own way; and yeah it might be 10% better but usually it ended up being about 50% worse

Generally, what floppy-less iMac really did, was spawning a whole new popular category of USB floppy drives (waste of resources, money, and so on) - most people with iMacs needed one. FDD wasn't yet legacy, the move was premature, erroneous - Apple removed floppy drive, but there was still no real alternative: pendrives non-existent yet, web access fledgling.
(NVM delusions of comparing those to the accomplishments of Newton...)
If Apple, say, threw into the box a few-MiB pendrive, that would be trailblazing (or at least shipping CD-RW drive as standard)

And, as is usual, you rewrite history in Apple's favour - Amiga CDTV was probably the first consumer computer without a floppy drive, almost a decade earlier.
(and, in this case, most CDTVs naturally also had an external floppy drive...)

Overall, iMac was partly a re-purposing of the earlier (and not Apple exclusive) idea of "network computer" (and indeed, iMac G3 even reused elements of one such hw project, MacNC - that might be a major reason for its omissions, minimising R&D costs, while dressing them in nice PR). Additionally, exclusively using a new industry standard bus (USB...) was more about abandoning Mac-legacy, Mac-specific ports (ADB and such), inadequate for the realities of the market.
And WRT market forces & your...

Oh I would agree it doesn't have the same level of importance as many other things they have pushed forward. But I still think that any company being the first at throwing themselves at criticism for dropping an ubiquitous yet legacy technology is noteworthy.

...oh look, one of the earliest stories here http://www.osnews.com/story/18/The_iMac_and_the_Floppy_Drive_A_Cons... - in short, it was more likely a PR stunt and whoring for support of accessory manufacturers, nothing to do with the benefit of the end-users. And you fell for it.

But, let's not forget what glorious things accompanied that move to USB: 1) the dreadful "hockey puck" mouse 2) building into the keyboard a full USB hub ...only to give it just one port, occupied by a mouse (with the remaining hard-to-access port occupied by FDD)

PS. And about "Apple produces the devices I most enjoy using and owning" - do you ever keep in mind how enjoyment works with... human minds? (for example with positional, veblen goods, http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/2008/pr-wine-011608.html - or go through a list of cognitive biases in general)

Edited 2012-08-19 00:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2