Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Aug 2012 21:30 UTC
Windows Microsoft has made Windows 8's final release available to MSDN and TechNet subscribers, so if you are one of those - have fun. The 90-day trial has also been released, so us mere mortals can have a go at it as well. The evaluation version is Windows 8 Enterprise, so it contains a number of features regular users normally won't see. As far as I can tell - it's a bit unclear - the trial version cannot be upgraded to a final version a few months down the line. Happy testing!
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RE[2]: Pass
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Aug 2012 04:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Pass"
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Same here. I wouldn't even run it if they gave me a free copy + $200.


As a Mac user who is tempted to jump ship after giving the 90 day trial an install, I can't work out where what all the hatred is about - honestly. I'm sitting here on my iMac running Windows 8 and sure it is a bit different but holy shitballs the way some people react around here is as though Steve Ballmer with Steven Sinofsky in tow both took pot-shots at your mother. Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish rather than previous releases looking little more than quasi distributions resulting from the haphazard amalgamation of different groups works into a single distribution.

Reply Parent Score: 11

RE[3]: Pass
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Aug 2012 08:02 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Wow, what a forum of pathetic cowards - voting down a comment and can't even be bothered making a reply outlining where the individual disagrees; once again it goes to show what a pathetic bunch of ingrates visit this website.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Pass
by MOS6510 on Thu 16th Aug 2012 08:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Don't worry, I voted it back up.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Pass
by adinas on Thu 16th Aug 2012 13:07 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
adinas Member since:
2005-08-17

"Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish"

Seriously? you have two totally different GUIs running at the same time. You jump between them depending on which app you are running. One of these GUIS is really inconvenient on a desktop PC and its best "feature" is that it shows you less information instead of more on the screen.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: Pass
by drcouzelis on Thu 16th Aug 2012 13:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
drcouzelis Member since:
2010-01-11

In addition to that, the only Windows 8 style applications we've essentially seen so far are from Microsoft. We'll have to wait and see how polished and unified the new start screen and user interface feels once the market is flooded with third party applications.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Pass
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Aug 2012 14:40 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

"Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish"

Seriously? you have two totally different GUIs running at the same time. You jump between them depending on which app you are running. One of these GUIS is really inconvenient on a desktop PC and its best "feature" is that it shows you less information instead of more on the screen.


Sorry I should have been more accurate in what I meant by 'fit and finish' - what I meant was in regards to previous releases. Yes, it can be a bit jarring moving between the 'Metro' interface to the traditional desktop but in terms of the desktop theme it is a lot better than the gaudy Windows Vista and the marginally improved Windows 7 appearance but that doesn't take away from the fact that the icons are out of place, the inconsistent usage of different GUI elements from various generations of libraries give a rough experience when compared to using Mac OS X.

I'm back on Mac OS X again and my brief experience has re-enforced why I've a Mac user because the more I used it the more my OCD went crazy to the point that I wanted to punch a box of kittens. Maybe it was my optimism that clouded my judgement but now that I've come down from my 'two day high' having used Windows 8 (used the leaked RTM then tried the 90 day trial) and faced the problems that I initially looked over in my excitement of trying a 'new toy' out.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Pass
by Dave_K on Thu 16th Aug 2012 14:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish rather than previous releases looking little more than quasi distributions resulting from the haphazard amalgamation of different groups works into a single distribution.


In my opinion Windows 8 has about the worst "fit and finish" of any Windows version released in the last 20 years.

The Windows 8/Metro UI just doesn't fit in alongside the traditional desktop. Using the two together has the feel of an unnatural Frankensteinian creation, patched together from different UIs designed for different purposes.

It's much less consistent, both visually and functionally, than the mix of Classic and Aqua apps back in the early days of Mac OS X. And unlike that situation, Metro/Win8 is too limited to be a full replacement for the desktop. Because of that this inconsistent mix of user interfaces will hang around indefinitely, rather than just being a temporary issue as people transition from the old to the new.

Of course this isn't a big issue if the only Win8/Metro component being used is the Start Screen, but Microsoft seem determined that this restrictive tablet interface is the future of the desktop OS. My main negative reaction to Windows 8 is down to the thought of eventually having to use crippleware full-screen mobile apps on my large screen mouse+keyboard desktop PC.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Pass
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Aug 2012 14:52 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

In my opinion Windows 8 has about the worst "fit and finish" of any Windows version released in the last 20 years.


I disagree - Windows Vista had to be the worse; mixture of different elements, different ways the control panel items worked etc.

The Windows 8/Metro UI just doesn't fit in alongside the traditional desktop. Using the two together has the feel of an unnatural Frankensteinian creation, patched together from different UIs designed for different purposes.


True; I think what they're trying to do is create a Metro operating system where by the desktop is the optional extra rather than it being the other way around hence the feeling that the way the desktop operates is as though it is an uninvited guest that really doesn't work well with how Metro operates. One wishes there was a way to fine tune things but alas it appears that Steven Sinofsky 'knows best'.

It's much less consistent, both visually and functionally, than the mix of Classic and Aqua apps back in the early days of Mac OS X. And unlike that situation, Metro/Win8 is too limited to be a full replacement for the desktop. Because of that this inconsistent mix of user interfaces will hang around indefinitely, rather than just being a temporary issue as people transition from the old to the new.


Which is my biggest problem - I don't think Metro will even be able to scale up to handle complex applications like Photoshop or Microsoft Office which leaves me asking what is Microsoft going to offer to desktop application developers? Yes I was lamenting the possible demise of the Mac Pro due to the long refresh cycle but at least one is still confident in Apple not doing something stupid of merging the two operating systems into a single entity. Cross pollination yes, merging no.

Of course this isn't a big issue if the only Win8/Metro component being used is the Start Screen, but Microsoft seem determined that this restrictive tablet interface is the future of the desktop OS. My main negative reaction to Windows 8 is down to the thought of eventually having to use crippleware full-screen mobile apps on my large screen mouse+keyboard desktop PC.


If the move is to kill of win32 and the desktop then God help those customers who are the enterprise, engineers, designers, office workers that integrate data from multiple software packages etc. I only hope that maybe this over attention on Metro is to make up for years of neglect when it comes to tablets and with Windows 9 we'll see a more balanced focus back on desktop applications. I'm hopeful but realistic that Microsoft isn't above making stupid decisions.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Pass
by AnythingButVista on Thu 16th Aug 2012 15:19 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
AnythingButVista Member since:
2008-08-27

"Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish rather than previous releases looking little more than quasi distributions resulting from the haphazard amalgamation of different groups works into a single distribution."


Wait, but you just described how Windows 8 feels like. (bold text in the quote above) Jumping from non-Metro to Desktop and back from Desktop to non-Metro feels just that bad.

Windows 8 has a lot going on for it, especially in the performance department, but the user experience is a downgrade compared to Windows 7, unless you are happy with the limited UX from tablets.

Edited 2012-08-16 15:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Pass
by orfanum on Thu 16th Aug 2012 15:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
orfanum Member since:
2006-06-02

I have been quick to disagree with you in the past but I also want to show I can be just as rapid in agreement.

I also find it a pain in the wotsit that people vote one down instead of replying. I also don't get the hysteria.

On the Windows 8 issue itself, I am genuinely undecided - but if what I have read on there being a $40 upgrade from Windows 7 Home Premium is true, why not just try it out? It's not much more than the money I have voluntarily donated to Linux Mint in the recent-ish past, so it seems pretty reasonable on the face of it.

Keep posting, naysayers or no!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Pass
by kaiwai on Fri 17th Aug 2012 16:52 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I have been quick to disagree with you in the past but I also want to show I can be just as rapid in agreement.

I also find it a pain in the wotsit that people vote one down instead of replying. I also don't get the hysteria.

On the Windows 8 issue itself, I am genuinely undecided - but if what I have read on there being a $40 upgrade from Windows 7 Home Premium is true, why not just try it out? It's not much more than the money I have voluntarily donated to Linux Mint in the recent-ish past, so it seems pretty reasonable on the face of it.

Keep posting, naysayers or no!


Unfortunately what I've seen online has gone from people disliking some aspects of Windows 8 to the almost fever pitched hysteria by some whose reaction is as though someone had just punched their mother. It is great to have disagreements and dislikes but I think the position by some regarding Windows 8 has blown the problems way out of proportion to the point that I don't think many of these people have a clue on what they're actually raging about - that is, the ability to clearly articulate the problems in a reasonable adult way besides resorting to an online hissy fit.

If I was a Windows user I really can't understand what the hatred is regarding consistency - I mean, if one has put up with 20 years of inconsistency why is there suddenly an expectation in 2012 that after 20 years of it that Microsoft is suddenly going to clean up their GUI and deliver something better? I guess where I stand as a Mac user I spoilt a bit when it comes to the GUI but if I were a Windows user I'd upgrade without too many reservations.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Pass
by ze_jerkface on Fri 17th Aug 2012 03:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

Here is the short list:

Infrequently used start menu items

Recent documents

Being forced to boot into the metro

VM hot spot problem

Poor organization of start menu items

And worst of all, the malware Metro screen that animates every time you want to do something simple like search or run a program from the start menu.

But if you spend all day in a browser then you won't notice the difference.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Pass
by twitterfire on Fri 17th Aug 2012 11:33 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

"Same here. I wouldn't even run it if they gave me a free copy + $200.


As a Mac user who is tempted to jump ship after giving the 90 day trial an install, I can't work out where what all the hatred is about - honestly. I'm sitting here on my iMac running Windows 8 and sure it is a bit different but holy shitballs the way some people react around here is as though Steve Ballmer with Steven Sinofsky in tow both took pot-shots at your mother. Compared to previous releases it finally appears that Microsoft understands the concept of fit and finish rather than previous releases looking little more than quasi distributions resulting from the haphazard amalgamation of different groups works into a single distribution.
"

You see, that's the problem: we are Windows users and this one seems to be a release targeted at Mac users & demographics, that's why we hate it so bad. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Pass
by kaiwai on Fri 17th Aug 2012 16:58 in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

You see, that's the problem: we are Windows users and this one seems to be a release targeted at Mac users & demographics, that's why we hate it so bad. ;)


Well I admit I am tempted but they would have to go along way before I even consider trading in my iMac and MacBook for a Lenovo Thinkpad and ThinkStation running Windows 8. Unfortunately for Microsoft half baked seems to be in their blood and I don't see it changing - where as Mac users will raise hell if an icon isn't perfectly alined where as in the Windows world it seems that users are happy to allow 20 years of crappy inconsistency be passed off as 'something to be addressed later' but 20 years later not only never actually addressed but amplified in some cases - open up several core GUI components such as the device manager, mouse control panel and Internet Explorer to see what I mean.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Pass
by bassbeast on Sun 19th Aug 2012 21:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Pass"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Challenge accepted.

Oh Windows 8 how do I hate thee? let me count the ways: 1.- Tile UI quickly becomes a mess if you actually install any programs, 2.- Many of the "apps" (oh how I hate that word now) including those by MSFT are low res crap that looks bad even on my 1600x900 widescreen, 3.- Last one I used (CP, haven't had a chance to try it in RTM) you had to fricking download a 200Mb "app" and wanted an XBL account to play freecell... it's fricking freecell not an MMO! 4.-Without touch the UI is clunky as hell, 5.- Locking out the ability to just go to desktop means I'm trapped in TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) whether i want it or not, 6.-Most of the under the hood changes could be trivially ported to Win 7 but I'm sure they won't, 7.-The new "faster boot" is actually an ugly MSFT hack (hybrid boot) that will cause problems down the line I'm sure, 8.- The MSFT appstore makes GFWL look good, 9.- After installing more than a dozen programs TIFKAM goes so tile crazy that the only way to use the OS is to bypass TIFKAM using the keyboard making the whole new UI completely pointless, 10.-The "one app at a time" full screen garbage wastes too much space and the low res tablet UI design makes it look just nasty as it wastes my monitor.

That enough for ya? If I spend another 30 minutes in Windows "LOL Hai! I IZ A Cellphone now LOL!" I could probably add a dozen more but then I'd probably pull an Elvis on my monitor and I don't want to buy a new one. As one of the poor bastards that will have to support this turkey (Although from the reaction of my customers the only "support" will be in the form of "Kill that ugly thing and put win 7 on!") I'll buy the $40 Win 8 Pro and run it in a VM just to learn how to fix the turd but that is gonna be about as pleasant as Vista with its constant "Cancel/Allow?" broken UAC mess.

Reply Parent Score: 2