Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Aug 2012 21:30 UTC
Windows Microsoft has made Windows 8's final release available to MSDN and TechNet subscribers, so if you are one of those - have fun. The 90-day trial has also been released, so us mere mortals can have a go at it as well. The evaluation version is Windows 8 Enterprise, so it contains a number of features regular users normally won't see. As far as I can tell - it's a bit unclear - the trial version cannot be upgraded to a final version a few months down the line. Happy testing!
Thread beginning with comment 531324
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[4]: Pass
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Aug 2012 14:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Pass"
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

In my opinion Windows 8 has about the worst "fit and finish" of any Windows version released in the last 20 years.


I disagree - Windows Vista had to be the worse; mixture of different elements, different ways the control panel items worked etc.

The Windows 8/Metro UI just doesn't fit in alongside the traditional desktop. Using the two together has the feel of an unnatural Frankensteinian creation, patched together from different UIs designed for different purposes.


True; I think what they're trying to do is create a Metro operating system where by the desktop is the optional extra rather than it being the other way around hence the feeling that the way the desktop operates is as though it is an uninvited guest that really doesn't work well with how Metro operates. One wishes there was a way to fine tune things but alas it appears that Steven Sinofsky 'knows best'.

It's much less consistent, both visually and functionally, than the mix of Classic and Aqua apps back in the early days of Mac OS X. And unlike that situation, Metro/Win8 is too limited to be a full replacement for the desktop. Because of that this inconsistent mix of user interfaces will hang around indefinitely, rather than just being a temporary issue as people transition from the old to the new.


Which is my biggest problem - I don't think Metro will even be able to scale up to handle complex applications like Photoshop or Microsoft Office which leaves me asking what is Microsoft going to offer to desktop application developers? Yes I was lamenting the possible demise of the Mac Pro due to the long refresh cycle but at least one is still confident in Apple not doing something stupid of merging the two operating systems into a single entity. Cross pollination yes, merging no.

Of course this isn't a big issue if the only Win8/Metro component being used is the Start Screen, but Microsoft seem determined that this restrictive tablet interface is the future of the desktop OS. My main negative reaction to Windows 8 is down to the thought of eventually having to use crippleware full-screen mobile apps on my large screen mouse+keyboard desktop PC.


If the move is to kill of win32 and the desktop then God help those customers who are the enterprise, engineers, designers, office workers that integrate data from multiple software packages etc. I only hope that maybe this over attention on Metro is to make up for years of neglect when it comes to tablets and with Windows 9 we'll see a more balanced focus back on desktop applications. I'm hopeful but realistic that Microsoft isn't above making stupid decisions.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Pass
by adricnet on Fri 17th Aug 2012 14:07 in reply to "RE[4]: Pass"
adricnet Member since:
2005-07-01

but at least one is still confident in Apple not doing something stupid of merging the two operating systems into a single entity. Cross pollination yes, merging no.


OT: I'm jealous of your confidence here. If I believed this I would have already bought a new MacBook (Pro) rather than struggling with finding another platform to move my daily use to when my iMac and old Macbook Pro finally give out in a few years..

While we're here if anyone at Apple would even say that they are going to preserve Macintosh it would help some. Or spin off the Mac BU, in my dreams... /OT

Back on topic, I still plan to "upgrade" the Win7 on my touchscreen netbook (Lenovo Ideapad S10-3T (RIP)) to Win8 and see how it goes. I can always boot back over to Android if I have to long enough to reinstall.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Pass
by kaiwai on Fri 17th Aug 2012 16:38 in reply to "RE[5]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

OT: I'm jealous of your confidence here. If I believed this I would have already bought a new MacBook (Pro) rather than struggling with finding another platform to move my daily use to when my iMac and old Macbook Pro finally give out in a few years..

While we're here if anyone at Apple would even say that they are going to preserve Macintosh it would help some. Or spin off the Mac BU, in my dreams... /OT


Already addressed directly by Steve Jobs and Tim - both regarding touch interfaces on the desktop (Steve said no, it doesn't make sense - great for demonstrates but crap in real life) and then further expanded where each platform will retain their uniqueness due to the specific task they're designed to do based on the input equipment used (touch vs. mouse/touchpad and keyboard). The only people pushing this merging crap have been the likes of Peter Misek whose idiot customers pay for his 'wisdom' that is little more than pissing into a stream then basing ones investment strategy on the direction in which the said urine is dispersed in the water. Why anyone would listen to so-called 'analysts' for issues relating to technology is as stupid as going to a crystal ball gazer as to whether or not they should get their oil changed in their car - the top executives at Apple have been pretty candid about the direction, I'm more confident in listening to them over so-called speculators and analysts.

Edited 2012-08-17 16:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Pass
by bassbeast on Sun 19th Aug 2012 22:07 in reply to "RE[4]: Pass"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

If the move is to kill of win32 and the desktop then God help those customers who are the enterprise, engineers, designers, office workers that integrate data from multiple software packages etc.



This is why the OEMs need to get together and support ReactOS because that is what it will take to finally break free of MSFT. Imagine a desktop that can run Windows drivers, Windows programs, Dx11 games, and had your choice of XP or 7 DE by default but could run even KDE or GNOME if it suited your fancy.

Trying to RAISE the price of PCs in a dead economy like MSFT and Intel are doing is suicide, just look at how few of those ultrabooks are selling. I can tell you as a retailer the sweet spot you HAVE TO HIT if you want decent sales is the crucial $350-$550 price point and there is just no way to throw in a decent touchscreen at that price, just no way. And with margins razor thin as it is there is just no fat to trim to add a touchscreen and still hit the crucial price point required to move units.

In the end though I have a feeling its gonna be Vista all over again, where Dell trotted out Ubuntu units and started to advertise them...only for MSFT to cave and let Dell and everyone else continue to sell XP. I think like Vista you'll see "Win 8 system...with Win 7 preinstalled!" and a Win 8 DVD sitting in the bottom of the box that everybody chunks and when ballmer fails yet again the board will end up getting him out of the big chair.

If they really want a shot at mobile they are gonna have to spin it off, trying to shoehorn a cellphone UI into an OS being used on HD widescreens? Just doesn't work.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Pass
by kaiwai on Mon 20th Aug 2012 02:51 in reply to "RE[5]: Pass"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

This is why the OEMs need to get together and support ReactOS because that is what it will take to finally break free of MSFT. Imagine a desktop that can run Windows drivers, Windows programs, Dx11 games, and had your choice of XP or 7 DE by default but could run even KDE or GNOME if it suited your fancy.


ReactOS or any clone would be a patent nightmare where as I'd sooner see a vendor take some of their cash and invest it into FreeBSD (stable driver API and ABI thus making closed sourced drivers realistic), implement OpenGL 4.3 in Mesa, replace Xorg, implement a system like upower/udisk/udev where the OS can talk to the desktop thus make mundane tasks such as mounting/unmounting volumes or installing new hardware a lot easier, then fund the movement of FreeBSD to LLVM/Clang along with the third party software sitting on top from other software projects. There needs to be a clean break but unfortunately we have vendors unwilling to look long term and invest money right now in unshackling themselves from Microsoft and dependency on the Windows release cycle as to boost sales.

Trying to RAISE the price of PCs in a dead economy like MSFT and Intel are doing is suicide, just look at how few of those ultrabooks are selling. I can tell you as a retailer the sweet spot you HAVE TO HIT if you want decent sales is the crucial $350-$550 price point and there is just no way to throw in a decent touchscreen at that price, just no way. And with margins razor thin as it is there is just no fat to trim to add a touchscreen and still hit the crucial price point required to move units.


Nothing wrong with pushing customers up the price point as long as you as a vendor can justify the extra price - right now Apple has no problems selling in this so-called 'dead economy' because lets get one thing straight, not every economy in the world is dead. Regarding touchscreens - they're a fad on the desktop whose only real benefit is when one is using a tablet. It appears that once again we have Microsoft throw all the usability studies out the window in favour of focus group feedback and telemetric data that quite frankly mean nothing in the end but it appears that managers rely on said faulty information because it gives them something/someone to blame when things don't turn out as expect (as we all knew was going to happen).

In the end though I have a feeling its gonna be Vista all over again, where Dell trotted out Ubuntu units and started to advertise them...only for MSFT to cave and let Dell and everyone else continue to sell XP. I think like Vista you'll see "Win 8 system...with Win 7 preinstalled!" and a Win 8 DVD sitting in the bottom of the box that everybody chunks and when ballmer fails yet again the board will end up getting him out of the big chair.


I think the biggest rebellion will be from third party desktop software developers wondering whether they've been abandoned by Microsoft through their lack of something to replace Win32 going forward. From an outsiders perspective you have a brand new shiny WinRT and Win32 more or less on life support thus doesn't give one confidence about the future. Believe me, if I was Apple right now what I would be doing is investigating how one can speed up the refresh of the Mac Pro and bring it down in price, update OpenGL to 4.3, refresh the iMac, how to get some major engineering applications like Solidworks on Mac OS X and so on. This is the opportunity for Apple to really make hay whilst things are quickly turning to shit in the Windows world right now - the question is whether Apple can even be bothered taking advantage of that opportunity.

If they really want a shot at mobile they are gonna have to spin it off, trying to shoehorn a cellphone UI into an OS being used on HD widescreens? Just doesn't work.


Why not just have Windows NT + WinRT with the desktop stripped out of it for the phone? why do desktop users have to put up with metro that really has no relevance on the desktop? why not have a 'boot straight into desktop' thus allow the traditional menu but warn end users that it would mean that they can't launch Metro applications from it? I can't wait to see the whole thing crash and burn because it would re-enforce what Steve Jobs said regarding the stupidity of merging two operating systems for two different devices that are targeted and different audiences, different uses and different ways of interacting with the device.

Edited 2012-08-20 02:55 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2