Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Aug 2012 23:54 UTC
Legal And just like that, within a matter of days, the jury has reached a verdict in Apple vs. Samsung. The basic gist is simple: Apple's software patents are valid, and many Samsung devices infringe upon them. Apple's iPhone 3G trade dress is valid, and Samsung's Galaxy S line infringes, but other devices did not. Samsung did not infringe Apple's iPad design patent. Apple did not infringe any of Samsung's patents. Apple is awarded a little over $1 billion in damages. Competition lost today, and developers in the United States should really start to get worried - software patents got validated big time today.
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Everybody wins
by Tony Swash on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:05 UTC
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

This is good.

This is good for innovation.

This is good for consumers, the industry and the whole tech market.

This probably even be good for Samsung, in the long run, as it is freed from it's addiction to cloning and will be forced to start innovating,

Samsung has a long record of ruthlessly copying competitors products, not just in detail but blatantly and on a large scale. With Apple's massively disruptive entry into the smart phone market followed closely by it's spectacular remaking and domination of the tablet market Samsung's copying of Apple entered a new and more intense phase. Samsung copied not just Apple's products but also the ads, the packaging, the retail stores, the works.

This sort of shit needs to stop otherwise the development of the technology business and markets will slow to a snails pace as everyone produces tedious 'me-too' products and nobody bothers to innovate because all their efforts, investment and creativity would be simply and immediately copied.

Apple-haters and Android fans are backing the wrong horse. Your enemies enemy is not your friend

It's true that the outcome of any complex legal case is to a degree uncertain but in this case the fundamental issue was actually very clear cut. Samsung did copy Apple. They did it systematically. And they did it deliberately. And there was plenty of evidence, plenty, showing what they did and why they did it.

Those whose judgement and vision is clouded by hatred of Apple or love of Googleroid try to not to see what is blindly obvious to any objective observers such as this jury. To the jury it seems to have been pretty clear, they cut through the bullshit and saw the unavoidable truth, Samsung copied and on an industrial scale.

Even when the jury saw the copying they could have argued, as some of the haters and the Googleroid fans try to, that it was no big deal, everyone does it and hey the world will come to an end if this sort of thing is stopped and anyway Apple has never invented anything and all they do is just copy. But again the jury saw that sort of mendacious bullshit for what it was, and the jury said what Samsung did is wrong.

When Samsung was asked by Apple to please stop copying they said 'fuck off'. When Apple said we will sue you if you continue to copy us and if you copy us you should pay us a license fee, Samsung said 'fuck off'. Now a US jury has said 'fuck off' to Samsung.

Well done and thank you.

No doubt this will be appealed but this is a big blow to poor old Samsung who will now have to come up with their own designs. Perhaps they can appeal on the basis that being forced to create their own original designs is a form of 'cruel and unusual punishment'.

Reply Score: -19

RE: Everybody wins
by Mellin on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:13 in reply to "Everybody wins"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple is going to be banned forever in my home and if my work place gets apple products i will not touch them


the court was bought by apple


the one who gave me a -1 is an apple retard!

Edited 2012-08-25 00:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by WorknMan on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:21 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

s going to be banned forever in my home and if my work place gets apple products i will not touch them.


Well, I don't see Google or Samsung on Capital Hill demanding an end to software patents, so it's hard for me to feel sorry for either of them. When you are a willing participant in a fight and get the shit kicked out of you, well... sucks to be you.

This is simply a case of big companies doing what big companies do. Samsung is going to appeal this, and of course it will drag on for several more years, and tech blogs will continue to be polluted with this incessant bullshit.

Reply Parent Score: 13

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by chemical_scum on Sat 25th Aug 2012 02:35 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

I have not nor will I ever buy an Apple product. I was going to add or a Microsoft product, but then I remember I actually bought MSDOS 6.0 many years ago.

No Apple or MS operating systems in our household. My desktop runs Ubunttu, my wife has a Linux netbook and an Android tablet. We both have dumbphones. I was thinking of buying a Sumsung Android phone. This decision is encouraging me to do so.

Boycott Apple products! Death to Apple!

Edited 2012-08-25 02:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by kaiwai on Sat 25th Aug 2012 09:40 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple is going to be banned forever in my home and if my work place gets apple products i will not touch them


the court was bought by apple


the one who gave me a -1 is an apple retard!


The fact that Samsung fails to provide me with an Android 4.1.1 update for a Samsung Galaxy S (released March 2010 - slightly over 2 years old) has resulted me take their mobile phone products of my list of possible options in the future. See, unlike YOUR post, mine is actually based on something empirical, their crap software support and not like your basis which is nothing more than chucking a hissy fit like a 6 year old getting told that they're not going to go to McDonalds for their birthday.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by pjafrombbay on Mon 27th Aug 2012 07:03 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
pjafrombbay Member since:
2005-07-31

Melin said: Apple is going to be banned forever in my home and if my work place gets apple products i will not touch them...

I agree!

I will NEVER buy an Apple product. The company has stifled innovation.

However, the US Patent system is the real villain here. Patents for rectangles should never have been allowed.

Australia has both patents and registered designs, the rectangle boxes may have been a registered design (I don't know how, but...) but NOT a patent.

What is ironical here is the fact that Apple got its post Apple ][ start by "stealing" Xerox patents when it developed the Lisa and then the Macintosh.

Regards,
Peter

Edited 2012-08-27 07:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE: Everybody wins
by jigzat on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:14 in reply to "Everybody wins"
v RE[2]: Everybody wins
by Mellin on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:16 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
RE[2]: Everybody wins
by linux-lover on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:32 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
linux-lover Member since:
2011-04-25

See the thing is patents on software itself is ridiculous.

Code is written, writing is protected by copyright.

Code in many ways is really just mathematics, and math is not patentable.

I am not a lawyer, but can't you only patent methods and implementations? Not ideas? Correct me if I am wrong.

Edited 2012-08-25 00:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by pgeorgi on Sat 25th Aug 2012 07:06 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
pgeorgi Member since:
2010-02-18

The law is clear, the companies that hold patents are forced to license it under a fair or competitive price.

They're not. You can build a total barrier to whatever market you got covered by patents.

The only exception is when you (or one of the former patent holders) signed away this right - for example in exchange for the patent to be added to some standard. That's what "FRAND" is about.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Everybody wins
by lakerssuperman on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:16 in reply to "Everybody wins"
lakerssuperman Member since:
2008-06-22

I understand your wish for people to innovate, but are you saying that a case which validated software patents is going to spur innovation when all software patents have done so far is hurt innovation?

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by bfr99 on Sat 25th Aug 2012 17:17 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
bfr99 Member since:
2007-03-15

I tend to place more credence on people who are willing to risk money instead of shooting off their mouths. I doubt the venture capital firms in Silicon Valley agree that software patents deter innovation.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: Everybody wins
by linux-lover on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:17 in reply to "Everybody wins"
linux-lover Member since:
2011-04-25

This is bad for innovation.
Not that Samsung was not copying Apple design (they obivously were heavily influenced by the iphone), it is bad because ludicrous software patents were validated. Any software developer knows that all software patents should be invalidated. But really? Pinch to zoom? Are you kidding me?

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by ze_jerkface on Sat 25th Aug 2012 01:20 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

I'm a software developer and I don't think all software patents should be invalidated.

Media compression codecs for example can take millions to create and are difficult to protect under copyright.

But slide to open? Hmmmm no. My glass door slides to open. You can probably find video games that used all of these Apple UI patents before smartphones existed.

I also think caps are a better answer than elimination. Part of the problem has been that Apple has purposely asked for unreasonable fees with the expectation that no one will pay them. Microsoft charges a buck in many cases and caps out at a million, at least for the ones I have seen.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Everybody wins
by Berend de Boer on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:32 in reply to "Everybody wins"
Berend de Boer Member since:
2005-10-19

Copying a good idea helps everyone won't you think?

Would the world be a better place if every device had a different way of zooming in?

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by bnolsen on Sat 25th Aug 2012 07:30 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

so every time you develop software you need to be hot clicking the patent search database to make sure you aren't infringing on some patent for any reason?

I'm not a friggin lawyer, I just develop software and I never intend to be a lawyer.

Edited 2012-08-25 07:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by kaiwai on Sat 25th Aug 2012 09:49 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Copying a good idea helps everyone won't you think?

Would the world be a better place if every device had a different way of zooming in?


You're assuming that the case was based on each small copying - it wasn't, it was the over all thrust of what they were trying to achieve. It wasn't a situation of implementing a couple of gestures with the GUI looking entirely different or a couple of applications that have similar layout but it was the cumulative effect of when all this copying was combined you had what you saw. Again, it is one thing to take a couple of things and add it but it is entirely a different matter to create more or less a clone. Btw, notice that other Android vendors aren't being sued? Why not sue ZTE or Huawei who pose a greater threat with their low cost Android devices that are popular with carriers? it seems people are ignoring what is happening in the Android world and some how believing that Samsung equals Android - it doesn't equal Android nor is it some sort of 'representative' of Android either.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Everybody wins
by NathanHill on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:35 in reply to "Everybody wins"
NathanHill Member since:
2006-10-06

Thanks for this comment by the way - feels like a bit of balance that this site needs.

It's a tough situation. Samsung is not the good guy here - they are just a big corporation that is making money on someone else's creativity and hard work.

I'm okay with patents. I understand how they can be abused and am very wary of that. New developers and inventors need to be encouraged... but they need to be encouraged to develop something new. I think companies who create have a right to win and protect those new ideas. And yet, when you create something new, you got to expect that people are going to figure out a way to duplicate your stuff eventually... if it's profitable.

At the end of the day, no one innovates by first thinking about patents - they think about ideas, solving problems, and enhancing people's lives.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by rikkirakk on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:38 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
rikkirakk Member since:
2012-07-30

At the end of the day, no one innovates by first thinking about patents - they think about ideas, solving problems, and enhancing people's lives.

You can't enhance people's lives if you're not allowed to distribute the product.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by Lennie on Sun 26th Aug 2012 11:23 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Hasn't it been shown, time and time again that most of these patents are just plain obvious ?

There is no benefit for patents on obvious things, I'll go so far to say there is a big disadvantage to the market to have those patents.

It does not encourage innovation, it actually slows down innovation.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Everybody wins
by snowbender on Sat 25th Aug 2012 00:55 in reply to "Everybody wins"
snowbender Member since:
2006-05-04

I was going to spend time and energy to give a reasonable response, and then I realised there is no point.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Everybody wins
by galvanash on Sat 25th Aug 2012 01:20 in reply to "Everybody wins"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

This is good for consumers, the industry and the whole tech market.


How is taking a large sum of money away from Samsung and giving it to Apple "good for consumers"??? What benefit do consumers get out of this at all?

How does creating an environment where implementing obvious UI conventions could cost you a Billion dollars benefit the tech industry???

This probably even be good for Samsung, in the long run, as it is freed from it's addiction to cloning and will be forced to start innovating,


Addiction to cloning??? Are you f*cking serious? Half the silicon in an iPhone is made by Samsung... They make tons of stuff, most of it things that Apple doesn't even think about making. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt due to this court decision, saying Samsung is "addicted to cloning" is extreme hyperbole.

Samsung has a long record of ruthlessly copying competitors products, not just in detail but blatantly and on a large scale. With Apple's massively disruptive entry into the smart phone market followed closely by it's spectacular remaking and domination of the tablet market Samsung's copying of Apple entered a new and more intense phase. Samsung copied not just Apple's products but also the ads, the packaging, the retail stores, the works.


Does Apple have patents on stylish Ads? What about having a gadget store - did they patent that too? What difference does it make if they copied things like that - everyone copies from successful businesses. The problem is you think that there is something wrong with it.

This sort of shit needs to stop otherwise the development of the technology business and markets will slow to a snails pace as everyone produces tedious 'me-too' products and nobody bothers to innovate because all their efforts, investment and creativity would be simply and immediately copied.


You see copying... I see progressive refinement. You can't have the later without some of the former.

I suppose you think that we would all be better off if Apple had won their "Look and Feel" case against Microsoft? Do you think things like BeOS, Gnome, KDE, etc. would have ever existed in that alternate reality???

Hell, the entire PC industry was CREATED through willfull, blatant copying! You do realize that modern Macs are now decedents of IBM's original PC platform don't you? Apple didn't seem to have an moral objections to willfully copying that...

You want to see things slow down to a snail pace??? Make doing patent clearances on software become a financial imperative. Slow down? More like stop dead.

Well done and thank you.

No doubt this will be appealed but this is a big blow to poor old Samsung who will now have to come up with their own designs. Perhaps they can appeal on the basis that being forced to create their own original designs is a form of 'cruel and unusual punishment'.


Gloat all you want - I guess the verdict gives you the right. But I predict this shit is going to get a lot messier before its all said and done.

There is one ray of light in this decision: A lot of software companies who thought they could stay quietly on the fence concerning software patents are going to start rethinking their positions now...

Reply Parent Score: 14

RE: Everybody wins
by quackalist on Sat 25th Aug 2012 01:33 in reply to "Everybody wins"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Hmm, more like everybody loses including Apple. Apple more than anyone as will be clear in 5/10 years.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by bfr99 on Sat 25th Aug 2012 17:13 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
bfr99 Member since:
2007-03-15

[q]Hmm, more like everybody loses including Apple. Apple more than anyone as will be clear in 5/10 years.

If you are correct you can make a lot of money by shorting the Apple stock.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Everybody wins
by JAlexoid on Sat 25th Aug 2012 02:36 in reply to "Everybody wins"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Now, get out of that RDF and look at the business reality. No matter how Apple fans and clouded-judgement-Mueller spin it, the matter of fact is that it boils down to Apple Gets $1 Billion From Samsung —> Nothing Changes.

Samsung already moved on from their old designs, so it's already irrelevant for them.
And an important and surprising part here, is that Galaxy Tab 10.1 is not infringing!


http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-24/apple-gets-1-billio...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Everybody wins
by pandronic on Sat 25th Aug 2012 05:44 in reply to "Everybody wins"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

Just shut the fuck up

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE: Everybody wins
by Hussein on Sat 25th Aug 2012 16:25 in reply to "Everybody wins"
Hussein Member since:
2008-11-22

You were modded down just because you spoke the truth in a site where the truth is not welcomed, don't fret.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE: Everybody wins
by brichpmr on Sun 26th Aug 2012 11:40 in reply to "Everybody wins"
brichpmr Member since:
2006-04-22

Nicely stated! The truth goes down hard around these parts.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE: Everybody wins
by tuma324 on Sun 26th Aug 2012 16:58 in reply to "Everybody wins"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

This is good.

This is good for innovation.

This is good for consumers, the industry and the whole tech market.

This probably even be good for Samsung, in the long run, as it is freed from it's addiction to cloning and will be forced to start innovating,

Samsung has a long record of ruthlessly copying competitors products, not just in detail but blatantly and on a large scale. With Apple's massively disruptive entry into the smart phone market followed closely by it's spectacular remaking and domination of the tablet market Samsung's copying of Apple entered a new and more intense phase. Samsung copied not just Apple's products but also the ads, the packaging, the retail stores, the works.

This sort of shit needs to stop otherwise the development of the technology business and markets will slow to a snails pace as everyone produces tedious 'me-too' products and nobody bothers to innovate because all their efforts, investment and creativity would be simply and immediately copied.

Apple-haters and Android fans are backing the wrong horse. Your enemies enemy is not your friend

It's true that the outcome of any complex legal case is to a degree uncertain but in this case the fundamental issue was actually very clear cut. Samsung did copy Apple. They did it systematically. And they did it deliberately. And there was plenty of evidence, plenty, showing what they did and why they did it.

Those whose judgement and vision is clouded by hatred of Apple or love of Googleroid try to not to see what is blindly obvious to any objective observers such as this jury. To the jury it seems to have been pretty clear, they cut through the bullshit and saw the unavoidable truth, Samsung copied and on an industrial scale.

Even when the jury saw the copying they could have argued, as some of the haters and the Googleroid fans try to, that it was no big deal, everyone does it and hey the world will come to an end if this sort of thing is stopped and anyway Apple has never invented anything and all they do is just copy. But again the jury saw that sort of mendacious bullshit for what it was, and the jury said what Samsung did is wrong.

When Samsung was asked by Apple to please stop copying they said 'fuck off'. When Apple said we will sue you if you continue to copy us and if you copy us you should pay us a license fee, Samsung said 'fuck off'. Now a US jury has said 'fuck off' to Samsung.

Well done and thank you.

No doubt this will be appealed but this is a big blow to poor old Samsung who will now have to come up with their own designs. Perhaps they can appeal on the basis that being forced to create their own original designs is a form of 'cruel and unusual punishment'.


Fuck you Apple fanboy.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Everybody wins
by krreagan on Mon 27th Aug 2012 00:16 in reply to "RE: Everybody wins"
krreagan Member since:
2008-04-08

An absolutely brilliant retort, bravo! Your brilliance has come shinning through. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Everybody wins
by dsmogor on Mon 27th Aug 2012 11:55 in reply to "Everybody wins"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The problem is that the jury just asserted a number of bogus patents despite obvious prior art in a very painful ways. The verdicts says much about US legal system and how it works as a protectionism engine.
The true damage is not the money Samsung has to pay now but indiscriminate amount of FUD that has spread over the industry.
How do you know you your shapes are and rectangles are enough not-apple like? The risk is to big and the result will be apple tax paid voluntarily by any touch phone manufacturer with resulting price rise definitely pushed down to the consumer. $1bil is peanuts compared to that. I personally feel ripped off by Apple and US now, as the prices abroad will definitely be affected by this.
I believe the right thing Samsung should do now is to go directly to ITC. Or simply withdraw from US market and focus on elsewhere. It's no longer reasonable to expect fair competition rules in the country.
And no it's not even remotely Android related (unless you take the line of thought that MS astroturfers spread), these patents may hit producer just any touch based communication device, be it MeeGo, BB or Tizen.

Reply Parent Score: 2