Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 25th Aug 2012 19:40 UTC
In the News "Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon, died Saturday, weeks after heart surgery and days after his 82nd birthday on Aug. 5. Armstrong commanded the Apollo 11 spacecraft that landed on the moon on July 20, 1969, and he radioed back to Earth the historic news of 'one giant leap for mankind'. He spent nearly three hours walking on the moon with fellow astronaut Edwin 'Buzz' Aldrin." Our thoughts are with his family and friends. Such a great man. The world lost a true legendary hero today. This man will be an inspiration for generations to come.
Thread beginning with comment 532359
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
What's all the fuss about
by bowkota on Sun 26th Aug 2012 07:14 UTC
bowkota
Member since:
2011-10-12

Sad to see him go. Important historic figure yes but that's where I draw the line. The praising in the media is just ridiculous. This man was nothing special. He wasn't a hero and he was no greater than any of his numerous other colleagues waiting to take that seat.

The true heroes and great men are the scientists and engineers working their ass off to get him (up) there; the ones who didn't receive any sort of praise or credit.

Edited 2012-08-26 07:15 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: What's all the fuss about
by kwan_e on Sun 26th Aug 2012 07:40 in reply to "What's all the fuss about"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

He wasn't a hero


What's your definition of hero?

and he was no greater than any of his numerous other colleagues waiting to take that seat.


Here's a lesson in simple logic for you:

The statement "Neil Armstrong is a hero" does not imply "Therefore he was greater than his colleagues".

Your complaint is thus idiotic.

The true heroes and great men are the scientists and engineers working their ass off to get him (up) there; the ones who didn't receive any sort of praise or credit.


They receive praise and credit ALL THE TIME. Neill is receiving praise and credit today especially is because HE DIED. When those scientists and engineers die, they too will get the praise and credit on that day.

Recognizing someone on a special occasion does not result in a shortage of supply for the next praiseworthy person or act.

There's an art to cynicism. You do not have it.

Reply Parent Score: 3

bowkota Member since:
2011-10-12


They receive praise and credit ALL THE TIME. Neill is receiving praise and credit today especially is because HE DIED. When those scientists and engineers die, they too will get the praise and credit on that day.

Errr, I'm pretty sure many of the NASA engineers responsible for that mission have passed away since then. You are aware that such a project is supported by hundreds of engineers. I'm pretty sure that there haven't been any headlines for them.

I understand the publicity; people want to celebrate this man's life because for some reason he was important to them. However I object to the over-exaggeration of his accomplishments and all the hero statements being thrown around.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: What's all the fuss about
by Alfman on Sun 26th Aug 2012 15:01 in reply to "RE: What's all the fuss about"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

kwan_e,

I agree with the OP that we tend to over-credit the individual and under-credit the team, many of whom will never get public recognition for their efforts.

Not to be disrespectful to Armstrong, his moon landing is a testament to human achievement and he deserves credit for being the first, but he would probably admit that he was a *very* lucky guy to have landed that role, it might have easily gone to someone else.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's all the fuss about
by Sodki on Sun 26th Aug 2012 07:56 in reply to "What's all the fuss about"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

He wasn't a hero and he was no greater than any of his numerous other colleagues waiting to take that seat.

The true heroes and great men are the scientists and engineers working their ass off to get him (up) there; the ones who didn't receive any sort of praise or credit.


Regarding the space pioneers, everyone is a hero, from the scientists and engineers to the navigators and astronauts. Everyone was important and everyone had to do their job, otherwise the mission would have failed and the astronauts would have been killed.

A previous comment by tanzam75 showed just that: the scientists and engineers could not have done Neil's job (and vice-versa). Neil's colleagues are also heroes. This is not a zero sum game.

Reply Parent Score: 4

marcus0263 Member since:
2007-06-02

"He wasn't a hero and he was no greater than any of his numerous other colleagues waiting to take that seat.

The true heroes and great men are the scientists and engineers working their ass off to get him (up) there; the ones who didn't receive any sort of prraise or credit.


Regarding the space pioneers, everyone is a hero, from the scientists and engineers to the navigators and astronauts. Everyone was important and everyone had to do their job, otherwise the mission would have failed and the astronauts would have been killed.

A previous comment by tanzam75 showed just that: the scientists and engineers could not have done Neil's job (and vice-versa). Neil's colleagues are also heroes. This is not a zero sum game.
"

But only a few had the Balls to crawl into a soup can and be hureled millions of miles hoping to hit a small speck of dirt. But then again he was a Marine pilot, he had a lot of practice landing on a pitching/ rolling speck of asphalt in pitch black night.

Semper Fi my Brother Neil, the world lost a great one

Edited 2012-08-28 01:51 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: What's all the fuss about
by MOS6510 on Sun 26th Aug 2012 09:28 in reply to "What's all the fuss about"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Not sure I would like to be shot in to space using 1960's technology, walk around on the moon and then fly back.

There are thousands of scientists for every astronaut, but many more astronauts died in accidents than scientists did.

When a scientist makes an error he or she doesn't die, someone else does.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: What's all the fuss about
by kwan_e on Sun 26th Aug 2012 11:00 in reply to "RE: What's all the fuss about"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

When a scientist makes an error he or she doesn't die, someone else does.


After the first few successful launches, the only errors that caused deaths were those of management. Records show that the scientists and engineers clearly warn of technical problems which management is recorded to have ignored, leading to deaths.

Whatever one thinks of the state of US science, it is undeniable that NASA still has the best in the business and they are rarely wrong.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: What's all the fuss about
by zima on Sat 1st Sep 2012 23:58 in reply to "RE: What's all the fuss about"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

There are thousands of scientists for every astronaut, but many more astronauts died in accidents than scientists did.
When a scientist makes an error he or she doesn't die, someone else does.

For the usual meaning of "rocket scientist" (~="a specialist that works with rockets) that is simply incorrect, disasters on launchpads alone killed many more scientists/technicians than astronauts ...in fact, just _one_ of them did that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_...

Meanwhile, it was a bit of a farce that, out of the twelve people who walked on the Moon, only one was a geologist, during the last Apollo moon mission - and only because he was bumped up at the last moment, after pleads from the scientific community, from a mission which never flew.
Frankly, I'm a bit surprised & disappointed that the scientific community wasn't more firm in their expectations - something to the tune of "we won't work on Apollo unless there will be a pro scientist on every two-man landing crew, and a scientist will be also the one who steps down first"

Edited 2012-09-02 00:16 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: What's all the fuss about
by BluenoseJake on Mon 27th Aug 2012 17:47 in reply to "What's all the fuss about"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

The man sat on a tube filled with explosives and traveled farther than any other man had ever traveled before that, in one of the most hostile environments known.

How is that not special? Can you do it? Have you done it? No? Then STFU.

Edited 2012-08-27 17:47 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

Comment by zima
by zima on Sat 1st Sep 2012 23:59 in reply to "RE: What's all the fuss about"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Apollo 9 and 10 missions were just as far... (and, earlier to that, turtles on Zond 5 ;p )

And no, I can't do that - for one, I was born at the wrong time, in a wrong place (just one man from my country was ever in space, and that was mostly just Intercosmos political PR).
Also, I was essentially outright blocked from such feats: for one, I have one generally hardly significant medical condition (caused by other people, by one medical frak up when I was 1 year old), but which disqualifies me from ever being a pilot of even a glider - meanwhile, I more than passed the educational requirements needed to get to a school that educates fighter pilots in my country; also, I was first in the final of "physics olympics" ...it didn't matter, and I suppose you'd just told me to "STFU"

Generally, people overestimate the individual contribution to the "end effect", and how our life ends up - it's one of the cognitive biases. Now, I'm not seeing the chosen twelve were poorly qualified, they weren't - but you could easily find at least hundreds which were just as well. Plus, curiously how all of the twelve were white males, most of them with angular jawbones...
Or ponder that: out of the twelve, only one was a professional geologist, during the very last Apollo moon mission - and only because he was bumped up at the last moment, after pleads from the scientific community, from a mission which never flew.

Kerosene, liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen are not very strictly speaking explosives, BTW ...unless you're also marvelled at the fact that I use explosives in my kitchen, SEVERAL TIMES PER DAY?
(and either way, disasters on launchpads alone killed many more scientists/technicians than astronauts... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_... )

Edited 2012-09-02 00:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: What's all the fuss about
by Soulbender on Tue 28th Aug 2012 11:25 in reply to "What's all the fuss about"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

This man was nothing special.


Except that he was part of a team that flew into space and to the moon in the 60's in a tube filled with highly explosive rocket fuel and with less computing power than your phone.
No offence to the scientists and engineers but their life wasn't on the line.

Reply Parent Score: 1