Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:46 UTC
Linux "For years now, Linux has been a black sheep standing in the shadow of Apple and Microsoft. Despite having a fervent and enthusiastic following, the operating system hasn't been able to grab a sizable share of the computing market and has instead been content to subsist on the customers that come away dissatisfied with the mainstream competition. But that may be about to change. With the release of Microsoft Windows 8 on the horizon, some are saying Linux may have a great opportunity to steal a significant share of the market away from Microsoft, allowing it to finally take the helm as a major operating system service provider." This has to stop, and the only reason I'm linking to this nonsense is to make this very clear: Linux will not magically conquer the desktop or even make any significant gains because of Windows 8. People who don't like Windows 8 (Vista) will continue to use Windows 7 (Windows XP). This is getting so tiring. And does it even matter? Linux is winning big time in the mobile space, server space, and countless other spaces. The desktop is and always has been irrelevant to Linux.
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X Sucks
by ze_jerkface on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:54 UTC
ze_jerkface
Member since:
2012-06-22

These posts shouldn't even exist until X has a decent fallback mode or is replaced by wayland.

Leaving grandma in the command line because of a driver crash or broken update in 2012 is completely unacceptable.

Cue the excuses.

Reply Score: -4

RE: X Sucks
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:14 in reply to "X Sucks"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Uhm.. similar nickname to nt_jerkface. Did you get banned recently or something? Or are you just trolling in the name thereof?

I haven't ever been kicked back to command line due to a driver crash, after using Xfree/xorg daily for 13 years.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: X Sucks
by bassbeast on Wed 29th Aug 2012 01:24 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

While I have to admit I haven't seen many X crashes of late the last round of distros I loaded (6 months ago to be fair) had serious driver update issues. Sound going to crap (Pulseaudio still stinks) and wireless is like a bad joke. For everyone who thinks this is "trolling" I urge you to read the two links I'm gonna give you, one from one of the devs of RH that says the Linux desktop is "suckage" and lists many fundamental structural problems with the design, and the second is a list (with links) to around 200 major problems with Linux..

https://plus.google.com/109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.c...

As a small shop owner that builds and sells PCs believe me I WANT Linux to get better, problem is politics and religious dogma have frankly crippled it and it isn't likely to get better in the near future. Too many critical subsystems from the kernel on up are constantly getting futzed with with ZERO thought to QA or QC or backwards compatibility, no hardware ABI means that you are at the mercy of the devs who may or may not have the time, manpower, or even access to the hardware that is screwed up to accurately diagnose and fix serious driver issues, and you can't just hand grandma a system which will have the wireless and sound crap out if she ever updates the thing.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: X Sucks
by amadensor on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:23 in reply to "X Sucks"
amadensor Member since:
2006-04-10

I'd rather be kicked back to a command line than to a blue screen where there is no chance to recover.

All crash recovery stinks. Linux's is no worse than Windows, so it is instead a matter of how often you need to use it.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: X Sucks
by ephracis on Tue 28th Aug 2012 22:50 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
ephracis Member since:
2007-09-23

At least when it comes to graphics driver crashes on Windows 7 (they still occur) all that happens is that my screen flickers, switches to Aero Basic, flickers, and then everything is back to normal. No bluescreen.

So the best fallback is to just switch to another driver, try to restart the crashed driver, and keep everything running including applications and open documents.

However, if that is not possible I sure agree with you. I want a command line more than a bluescreen and a restart. Preferably mixed with some autosaving stuff (like OS X) to make sure my open documents can be recovered.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: X Sucks
by f0dder on Wed 29th Aug 2012 07:57 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
f0dder Member since:
2009-08-05

I haven't had a graphics driver related BSOD since Vista came around. The other day, I had a driver restart while playing Prototype 2 - screen flickered for a few seconds, and then I could alt-tab back into the game and continue playing.

I think I've seen three BSODs the last couple of years. One was a buggy 3rd-party VPN driver, another was an unstable PSU, and the last was when my X25-E (OS drive) died.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: X Sucks
by Soulbender on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:26 in reply to "X Sucks"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Leaving grandma in the command line because of a driver crash or broken update in 2012 is completely unacceptable.


Because staring at an incomprehensible BSOD or having to manually fix the issue with a safe boot and registry hacking is much superior....

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: X Sucks
by ze_jerkface on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:56 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

BSOD? Have you guys used Windows recently?

Even back when that happened every case I had was fixed with a reboot. Linux isn't as failsafe as Windows and if X was so great then there wouldn't be a plan to replace it.

Then there are the subpixel font issues, game resolution changing problems, clipping, video stuttering, and dependence on xorg.conf.

But I'm sure you guys have an anecdote about playing games with grandma on 3 monitors in multiple resolutions while watching a Flash video and all done without touching xorg.conf.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: X Sucks
by WorknMan on Tue 28th Aug 2012 23:34 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Because staring at an incomprehensible BSOD or having to manually fix the issue with a safe boot and registry hacking is much superior....


Hey, at least the Windows 8 BSOD has a sad face ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: X Sucks
by diegoviola on Wed 29th Aug 2012 02:33 in reply to "X Sucks"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15

These posts shouldn't even exist until X has a decent fallback mode or is replaced by wayland.

Leaving grandma in the command line because of a driver crash or broken update in 2012 is completely unacceptable.

Cue the excuses.


KMS has fixed this. Now all open source drivers (Intel, Radeon, Nouveau) and all DRI drivers (in-kernel drivers) use KMS by default.

What this means is that when the kernel boots and the driver is loaded, your monitor and video is configured on the fly (automatically) for you, so you get a native resolution automatically, and X/Wayland uses this by default, so the user never have to do anything, all this happens automatically, and the user never sees a command line or anything like that.

What the user actually sees is that the kernel flickers for a second and then a sleek splash screen with the native resolution, and then X/Wayland "just works".

There's nothing to configure. Things "just work" these days.

Troll harder next time.

Edited 2012-08-29 02:50 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[2]: X Sucks
by Dryhte on Wed 29th Aug 2012 06:41 in reply to "RE: X Sucks"
Dryhte Member since:
2008-02-05

What? Things on PC 'just work'? Time for an Apple lawsuit then... there must be a software patent somewhere about things 'just working'.

Reply Parent Score: 4