Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 30th Aug 2012 09:16 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Just driving yesterday's point home some more: "The Lilith was one of the first computer workstations worldwide with a high-resolution graphical display and a mouse. The first prototype was developed by Niklaus Wirth and his group between 1978 and 1980 with Richard Ohran as the hardware specialist. [...] The whole system software of the Lilith was written in Modula-2, a structured programming language which Wirth has developed at the same time. The programs were compiled into low-level M-Code instructions which could be executed by the hardware. The user interface was designed with windows, icons and pop-up menus. Compared with the character based systems available at that time, these were revolutionary metaphors in the interaction with a computer." Jos Dreesen, owner of one of the few remaining working Liliths, wrote a Lilith emulator for Linux.
Thread beginning with comment 533265
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: And...
by tupp on Thu 30th Aug 2012 15:19 UTC in reply to "And..."
tupp
Member since:
2006-11-12

... standing by what we discussed yesterday - nice achievement, but it's hardly on a par with what Xerox was doing, and then Apple with the Lisa and Mac. Again, no one said Xerox invented the idea of a user interface, they didn't.

The Lilith was just one of many GUIs that came out before any Apple GUI. In the late 1970s and early 1980s computer world, there was considerable excitement about GUIs.

Other players had more sophisticated GUIs, including the Perq (mentioned in the BLIT thread). The Perq had all the elements of a modern GUI, and it first appeared in 1979 -- four years before the first Apple GUI.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: And...
by henderson101 on Thu 30th Aug 2012 22:03 in reply to "RE: And..."
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30


The Lilith was just one of many GUIs that came out before any Apple GUI. In the late 1970s and early 1980s computer world, there was considerable excitement about GUIs.


Which is surely what I said?

Other players had more sophisticated GUIs


Which, again, no one is denying, next?

including the Perq (mentioned in the BLIT thread). The Perq had all the elements of a modern GUI


[Citation needed]

To me, it looks on a par with the early versions of Windows on a monochrome monitor. But, its hard to tell, given the lack of info containing any graphical screenshots that are not blurry.

and it first appeared in 1979 -- four years before the first Apple GUI.


No. Firstly, it as only announced in mid 79. It didn't ship till 1980. Bear in mind, the Lisa was 2 years in to development by that point, and was was released very late. Then compare this "complete" GUI to the Lisa (and Alto/Star) and then tell me, straight faced, you're still serious.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: And...
by tylerdurden on Fri 31st Aug 2012 01:05 in reply to "RE[2]: And..."
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

You keep making these purely subjective qualitative arguments, passing them as facts, about machines and systems which you have never used, which I find hilarious.

BTW, let me let you in a little "secret": when the project that eventually led to the Lisa was started in 1978, it wasn't a GUI. In fact, Apple did not have any personnel working on GUIs until 1980 at the earliest.

Edited 2012-08-31 01:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: And...
by tupp on Fri 31st Aug 2012 05:28 in reply to "RE[2]: And..."
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

To me, it looks on a par with the early versions of Windows on a monochrome monitor.

Lisa and the original Mac were monochrome.

The Perq could use different GUIs -- PNX, Accent, a native system (apparently), and app-specific GUIs, such as the advanced Intran Metaform GUI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fap-mXY80ls


But, its hard to tell, given the lack of info containing any graphical screenshots that are not blurry.

There are a lot of Perq screenshots and videos. I already linked one video in a recent thread. A web search should reveal much.


and it first appeared in 1979 -- four years before the first Apple GUI.

No. Firstly, it as only announced in mid 79. It didn't ship till 1980.

Negatory.

It was definitely being shown at sales demos and trade shows in 1979, with an 8-page brochure (and Three Rivers was taking orders in late 1979 -- not that sales matter to the existence of a device).

And don't forget: the Perq was shipping in 1980 -- three years before the first Apple GUI shipped!


Bear in mind, the Lisa was 2 years in to development by that point, and was was released very late.

There is no reason to doubt that the Perq (and its GUIs) were in development before the Lisa was in development.

By the way, the Three Rivers company was founded in 1974, two years before Apple existed.


Then compare this "complete" GUI to the Lisa (and Alto/Star) and then tell me, straight faced, you're still serious.

Definitely serious.

The Perq/Accent GUI had icons/folders, overlapping windows, etc. The Perq/Metaform GUI added even more, such as drop-down menus and scroll bars. By the way, both of these GUIs existed prior to the Apple Lisa. However, the Xerox Star probably preceded the Metaform additions (Metaform also worked on the Star).

Of course, the Xerox Star also preceded the first Apple GUI by two years.

Reply Parent Score: 4