Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 1st Sep 2012 21:15 UTC
Windows The Verge published a video demonstrating how desktop mode and Office 2013 - a desktop application - work on Windows RT, the ARM version of Windows 8. The video showed a desktop mode that clearly didn't work well for touch, and even Office 2013, which has a rudimentary touch mode built-in, didn't work properly either. It looked and felt clunky, often didn't respond properly, and even showed touch lag.
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RE: Window opportuniry
by darknexus on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 00:53 UTC in reply to "Window opportuniry"
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

With the release of Windows 8 and Office 13, Linux distributions have got a never-seen-before case scenario of a window opportunity to take over


You're dreaming if you think that will ever happen. There's only one category of Linux that has gotten anywhere with the average consumer and that is called Android. If the "geek community" as you call it want Linux to take over they must do at minimum the following:
1. Consolidate and agree on which distribution should target the end users.
2. Target said end users rather than just themselves and those who want to tweak. That means, among other things:
* Ditching X.org for a working graphics stack (Wayland does look promising)
* Fixing the audio subsystem (ditch ALSA, Pulseaudio, and the rest of that mess and put your resources into OSS 4 which actually works)
* Providing API and ABI compatibility (yes, the Linux lovers say it's unnecessary but it damn well is necessary for commercial software)
* Stop trying to tell every commercial developer that they need to GPL everything or open source their drivers
* Thoroughly test all updates to insure that a simple software update won't result in the login screen of death
* Document all system APIs in a consolidated mannor and publish that for third party developers

We'll start with that list. If the Linux community is willing to stop breaking everything and do the remaining 20% that isn't fun, then just maybe they'll have a chance. As for me, I'm betting my money on none of this happening. Oh well, FreeBSD already has most of this and they could always make a stab at the desktop or a FreeBSD tablet. The *BSD folks know what needs to be done to make an operating system rather than a mishmash of components that come apart at the first opportunity.

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[2]: Window opportuniry
by tuma324 on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 04:05 in reply to "RE: Window opportuniry"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

Lol FreeBSD.

The BSDs are way behind Linux in every way, WTF are you talking about?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Window opportuniry
by darknexus on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 05:34 in reply to "RE[2]: Window opportuniry"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Lol FreeBSD.

The BSDs are way behind Linux in every way, WTF are you talking about?

I would bother to answer except for two things: this thread is about Windows and the fact that you do not include any actual evidence as to how the BSDs are so behind Linux. People who make said claims must present evidence to be taken seriously. I simply claimed that the *BSDs were a complete operating system designed with the goal of each component going with every other component. This, if you have even used a BSD for five seconds, is obvious. That alone puts it ahead of Linux for desktop use, as the various parts of the os must work together for a smooth and consistent user experience. Windows has this, *BSDs also have this, as does OS X. Linux does not and, until it does and until the community acknowledges this, desktop GNU/Linux will go absolutely nowhere. As long as it's possible to brick your system with a simple security update that prevents X.org from running (yes, I've seen that and to an average user that is a bricked system) you'll gain no traction. Ignoring it, or shouting at we "haters" who point this stuff out won't help. We don't do it out of malice, you know. Plenty of us, including me, would love to see a real alternative to Windows on generic hardware emerge and if there were ever a time for that to happen, it is now. Either it happens now, or it doesn't happen for another twenty years. I don't need to remind anyone here that, if Microsoft has their way with secure boot, that might be twenty years too late.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Window opportuniry
by No it isnt on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 10:22 in reply to "RE: Window opportuniry"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Hardly anyone is telling commercial developers to GPL everything. At least, far more people are complaining about that kind of behaviour than there are people actually behaving that way. It's a very trollish point to make.

Simple software updates don't break the login screen. The only time I've seen this happening was in OS X, where an error in a WLAN library made the login splash screen hang indefinitely with no error message. No Linux distro offers that kind of unneeded complexity.

FreeBSD is years behind Linux on the desktop. At least if you include things like ditching X for Wayland, never mind that FreeBSD is years behind Linux with X development as well. But yeah, it does have OSSv4. It's not really all that much better than ALSA + Pulse in all configurations (certainly didn't work for me), but if you prefer the FreeBSD fantasy to the Fantasy of The Year of Linux on the Desktop, then just go right ahead and dream on.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Window opportuniry
by foregam on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 12:54 in reply to "RE: Window opportuniry"
foregam Member since:
2010-11-17


* Ditching X.org for a working graphics stack (Wayland does look promising)
* Fixing the audio subsystem (ditch ALSA, Pulseaudio, and the rest of that mess and put your resources into OSS 4 which actually works)
* Providing API and ABI compatibility (yes, the Linux lovers say it's unnecessary but it damn well is necessary for commercial software)

BS. Ditch X.org for Wayland? I have very few good words to say about X, but ditching a thoroughly tested and working, though somewhat aged and quite clunky, system for some vapourware is plain stupid. Pulseaudio is a bitch, right, but no-one is forcing you to use it. OSS is already ditched for ALSA, so the chances that ALSA be ditched for OSS4 are quite slim. Re: ABI compatibility, it's right there. Install the libraries you need, load the modules you need and stop whining. I have, and occasionally run, programs from every incarnation of libc: a sourceless ZMAGIC roguelike, some Loki games, a commercial tape backup program from the 2.0 kernel days, some really old version of ApplixWare. That's pretty damn good for me. If you want to say something about GCC ABI compatibility, well, I feel your pain. APIs stay mostly compatible within those projects I track, can't say anything about the general trend.


* Stop trying to tell every commercial developer that they need to GPL everything or open source their drivers
* Thoroughly test all updates to insure that a simple software update won't result in the login screen of death
* Document all system APIs in a consolidated mannor and publish that for third party developers

Nagging vendors for open source drivers is actually useful in the long run — most of them eventually got the message, even Broadcom. The last two are good points, but this is not a single team with a single policy.

Edited 2012-09-02 12:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Window opportuniry
by AdrianoML on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 18:18 in reply to "RE: Window opportuniry"
AdrianoML Member since:
2010-08-13


* Ditching X.org for a working graphics stack (Wayland does look promising)
* Fixing the audio subsystem (ditch ALSA, Pulseaudio, and the rest of that mess and put your resources into OSS 4 which actually works)
* Providing API and ABI compatibility (yes, the Linux lovers say it's unnecessary but it damn well is necessary for commercial software)


Seriously, none of that is a problem. I can install Unreal Tournament 99 for Linux, ported by Loki arround ~2000 and it works fine in this modern 64bit Gnome 3 ArchLinux install.

If your poorly binary _only_ software depends on dynamic linked libraries that will sure change over the years, then sure, it will brake.

Since this is linux you can also do cool stuff like route audio trough jack and apply any kind of DSP, mind you this game uses very old legacy OSS for actual sound output ;)
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9997/capturadetelade20120902.png

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Window opportuniry
by diegoviola on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 21:43 in reply to "RE[2]: Window opportuniry"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15

Please consider using http://ompldr.org/ or http://imgur.com/ next time, ImageShack sucks and I can't see your image without registering to that site.

Edited 2012-09-02 21:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Window opportuniry
by lucas_maximus on Wed 5th Sep 2012 00:45 in reply to "RE[2]: Window opportuniry"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

If your poorly binary _only_ software depends on dynamic linked libraries that will sure change over the years, then sure, it will brake.


That is kinda the whole point of his comment, I have a reasonable expectation of a library in Windows staying the same.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Window opportuniry
by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 2nd Sep 2012 23:24 in reply to "RE: Window opportuniry"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I would add to your list: create/support a usable desktop (like Cinnamon or Mate) or go back to something like KDE 3.5.
I will never stress that enough. The direction taken by the Linux Desktop has disgusted so many users.
But they said that users didn't matter, didn't they?

Reply Parent Score: 2