Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Sep 2012 23:41 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless If there's one thing I miss in the current smartphone industry, it's design. Honest to good, real design. We basically see one boring slab after another, void of any true identity, whether it's iPhone, Samsung, or any of the others. In this boring world of grey, black, and the occasional white, Nokia is the jester, coming up with its own unique designs and crazy colour selection. Today, the company unveiled the Lumia 920 and 820 to continue this trend.
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Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:08 UTC
masennus
Member since:
2011-02-11

I can still not understand how Thom, as an os-geek, can give so much public endorsement to a piece of hardware that if successful will lock millions of people out of alternative operating systems.

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The new nokias can by design only be connected to a pc with a mainstream operating system!
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(There is a great selection of TWO, and the second one has very small market share, so it will probably be dropped if windows phone ever get big)

For this reason I, as a finn, would rather have nokia die than succeed with the current strategy.

Thom has apparently given up and been assimilated.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:15 in reply to "Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Phones don't lock out people, people do.

If you're a Windows user, which most people are, what's wrong with buying a phone that works with Windows?

Should you switch to Linux the worst that can happen is that you can't hook up your phone to it, but who does that anyway these days? It's all WiFi, Bluetooth and cloud stuff now.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:56 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
masennus Member since:
2011-02-11

Wow, didn't know you could connect a pc to a lumia phone with wifi. How do you do that?

And again: I'm not suggesting that average people would know or care, I'm just having a hard time understanding how someone rooting for haiku and risc os while mourning the fate of beos still have only praises for this thing that deliberately makes it even more difficult to use anything other than mainstream os'es.

And about average people, just an example: Every classroom in my childrens school has a pc and some kind of "interactive whiteboard" with a projector and bluetooth connected pens, which is very frequently used. When one of the teachers has bought a "new nokia" and for the first time tries to copy off some pictures from the last school trip to show on the whiteboard, it won't work **** ONLY because microsoft decided that it MUST NOT work *****

The computers are running linux, as is every computer in the whole school district. As are the computers in the libraries. This is real, and happening, and microsoft is fighting it every way they can, as always. Still it might go the way of beos, only because people doesn't care.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Still depressing
by JAlexoid on Thu 6th Sep 2012 10:29 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Phones don't lock out people, people do.

If you're a Windows user, which most people are, what's wrong with buying a phone that works with Windows?

Should you switch to Linux the worst that can happen is that you can't hook up your phone to it, but who does that anyway these days? It's all WiFi, Bluetooth and cloud stuff now.



You might have missed the crucial modifier to his statement - "as an os-geek"

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Still depressing
by raddude9 on Fri 7th Sep 2012 09:06 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
raddude9 Member since:
2009-07-15

What phones Don't work with Windows BTW?

And just because these phone run Windows doesn't make them flexible like PCs that run windows. On any PC you buy today you have the freedom to put an alternative OS on it. We should demand the same of our phones, it's our hardware after all.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Still depressing
by Skender on Thu 6th Sep 2012 09:08 in reply to "Still depressing"
Skender Member since:
2010-11-18

That you need a PC to connect it to, is a dealbreaker for me. I never need to connect my (ancient) N900 to a PC. Not even for (the vast majority of) OS updates. I can't think of a good reason why you would be required to have certain software running on a PC to be ably to make full use of your smartphone...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Still depressing
by tomcat on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:43 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

That you need a PC to connect it to, is a dealbreaker for me. I never need to connect my (ancient) N900 to a PC. Not even for (the vast majority of) OS updates. I can't think of a good reason why you would be required to have certain software running on a PC to be ably to make full use of your smartphone...


You don't. Go to the carrier. They'll upgrade it for you while you wait.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Still depressing
by iswrong on Thu 6th Sep 2012 19:13 in reply to "Still depressing"
iswrong Member since:
2012-07-15

Well, there is Windows Phone 7 Connector for the Mac as well. Consequently, ~99% of the population can connect their WP7 to their computer.

By the way, isn't Windows Phone 8 going to support over-the-air updates?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Still depressing
by bassbeast on Fri 7th Sep 2012 15:17 in reply to "Still depressing"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

If you want to complain that it has no Linux support then you should rightly go write a nasty letter to the Linux devs, start with Torvalds and work your way down. or do you blame the farmer who raised the beef when Mickey D's gives you a lousy burger?

The simple fact is as long as Torvalds, giant ego that he is, refuses to allow a stable ABI or API then the vast majority of companies simply won't support you, its just THAT simple. You can write a piece of software in Windows and have it run on anything from Win2K-Win 8 X64 and moreover it will KEEP running without having a team of devs constantly rewrite the thing. Don't give us that 'Just give us the code" BS either, we saw how well that worked with AMD, most companies aren't gonna bet their business on some stranger writing their programs for them, give it up chuck.

So either give the companies a platform that can be "written once, used for years" or don't complain when nobody supports you, most places have better things to spend money on than a team of devs to support an OS with 0.97% market share.

As for TFA, they look pretty which to the masses seems to be important, but I don't see any Micro-SD slot and considering those that were dumb enough to buy winPhone 7 won't be getting WinPhone 8 I have to wonder how many are gonna risk taking another shot. like it or not with Android phones you can usually get one or even two updates, if by no other means Cyanogenmod, but with WinPhone you really have to look at the history of the company and MSFT has a nasty habit of pulling the rug out from under users, playsforsure,Zune,Kin,Sidekick anyone?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Still depressing
by dukes on Fri 7th Sep 2012 16:22 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

...but I don't see any Micro-SD slot and considering those that were dumb enough to buy winPhone 7 won't be getting WinPhone 8 I have to wonder how many are gonna risk taking another shot.


I bought a WP7 Phone and I'm not dumb. I'm also going to buy WP8. It suits my lifestyle just fine. [This is coming from a long time iPhone owner and owner of a N7].

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by ichi on Fri 7th Sep 2012 16:28 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

You can write a piece of software in Windows and have it run on anything from Win2K-Win 8 X64 and moreover it will KEEP running without having a team of devs constantly rewrite the thing.


If you are talking about drivers then no, you can't write a driver for Win2k that works on Win8 x64.

And it's also drivers what break with the unstable internal kernel ABI in Linux, because the external API is actually quite stable. Any other software besides kernel drivers will run on any kernel version you throw it at.

I'm not really sure about a stable internal ABI being the holy grail people claim it would be, anyway. Sure, it might have made it easier for some devs to release binary drivers, but it would also mean maintaining old cruft in a kernel that's intended to be developed fast (how many kernel releases have we had already?).

And then, WP phones not being supported on Linux have nothing to do with inestable ABIs anyway, you don't really need a kernel driver to copy stuff to an external device.

Edited 2012-09-07 16:31 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Still depressing
by No it isnt on Sat 8th Sep 2012 22:32 in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Why is it that everyone who's complaining about the ABI has no fucking clue what it's for? You don't need kernel support for a protocol to talk to a USB device. Make it a library. Write once, etc.

So much vitriol just for stating your own incompetence.

Reply Parent Score: 2