Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Sep 2012 23:41 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless If there's one thing I miss in the current smartphone industry, it's design. Honest to good, real design. We basically see one boring slab after another, void of any true identity, whether it's iPhone, Samsung, or any of the others. In this boring world of grey, black, and the occasional white, Nokia is the jester, coming up with its own unique designs and crazy colour selection. Today, the company unveiled the Lumia 920 and 820 to continue this trend.
Thread beginning with comment 534195
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Its a list. Just not necessarily a good one. I could come up with genuine consumer facing limitations that they'd actually be annoyed with. Not niche kitchen sink features that serve little purpose other than to be ticked off of some imaginary sheet.


To me it sounds like you're saying that everything is fine, and that OEM & 3rd party applications will complete the missing core functionality, and that Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone 9, Windows Phone 10, etc. is sure to address any core flaw the platform has? (facepalm)


That's not what I said at all, which is interesting, because you accused me of not being able to read.


If the situation was like you say, then why Samsung sold like more than 20 million GS3s just in 3 months. Nokia has only managed to ship 7 million Lumia devices combined in since they started selling them.


The lack of Windows Phone sales as a whole is a channel problem, not a core OS issue. There is a lot of friction between Microsoft, OEMs, and Carriers. Also RSPs are not educated or incentivized enough.

Consumers do not buy things. Consumers are sold things. The retail channel matters in a big way for mobile phones. Especially in the US.

Why Nokia's N9 sold better than any Lumia device despite Nokia restricted seriously its sales?


False. This actually turned out to be a huge lie. A lie convenient for you, but I hope you stop repeating it.


You don't know exactly what issues Windows Phone 8 will fix and what it won't since it's not out yet. Claiming that "it will shit load of things Windows Phone 8 will address" is BS until proven otherwise. So far there are only few things we know for certain that are fixed in Windows Phone 8. Some of which I already mentioned in my other post.


Actually, a leaked SDK is out with a full emulator, so yeah, actually, I do have a pretty good idea of what will be in WP8. Maybe if you spent less time regurgitating the N9 outsold Lumia FUD you'd be aware of the fact.


The way you put out that "anyone can come up with a million reasons to hate a platform" sounds like in your opinion there are no good reasons to avoid Windows Phone. I'm like offering my opinions here and opinions of others and I'm at least trying to base off these things on facts, and you're like not even trying to pick these things up for a conversation. Personally, I'm going to interpret that as a fanboyism.

And to balance things out a little bit. I like the Windows Phone UI. It's pretty. (But it's complex to dive into [doesn't mean it's difficult to use], and has serious usability flaws.)


This entire diatribe was stupid. Next comment leave crap like this out please. I spend the time reading your posts, don't insult my intelligence by filling them with fluff.

Edited 2012-09-07 06:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Is there a source that shows that the Lumia has sold better than the N9? I hadn't heard that.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

So your line of reasoning (and let me see if I follow) is that "N9 has outsold Lumia because you can't prove it hasn't" ?

Unreal.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

That's not what I said at all, which is interesting, because you accused me of not being able to read.


*Ahem* I wrote "To me it sounds like". I didn't wrote "So you're saying"...

The lack of Windows Phone sales as a whole is a channel problem, not a core OS issue. There is a lot of friction between Microsoft, OEMs, and Carriers. Also RSPs are not educated or incentivized enough.

Consumers do not buy things. Consumers are sold things. The retail channel matters in a big way for mobile phones. Especially in the US.


It's not a sales chain / sales channel problem. You're retelling me now what Stephen Elop told people. And that's just another one of his lies in my opinion.

Nokia has the largest sales chain in the world. Or at least they used to have. But they still have remarkably strong retail sales chain as a World's current #2 and previous #1 phone seller.

I've made a point before in this thread that there are problems within core Windows Phone why people don't want to have it. There's an easy way to consider about the issue.

Since Nokia's sales chain really is the strongest or at least one of the strongest in the whole world. If a product doesn't sell like hot cakes through it, it effectively means that nobody wants to have it.

You're seriously underestimating intelligence of consumers. While what you say, can be seen participially true, however, it's not the complete picture. What supports your argument is that Lumias as a whole were indeed sold seven million units. But when we compare it to the numbers of earlier Nokia devices, which sold millions of units alone... (sigh)

No matter how bad Symbian usability was it performed well in all areas it was made for, and it did everything people wanted from it. For example N8 sold four million units when in a same time frame Lumia 800 sold less than a million.

My point is that people buy things based on what they need. And they do not need Windows Phone devices since those devices don't fill the needs of the people. It's an core OS issue. Even now when Nokia collected wide range of good words about their Lumia 820 and 920 hardware design. Not so much about as a single good word from their decision to use Microsoft's software. In fact mostly it was just about wordings like "Big question mark seems to be the Windows Phone 8", at least in Finnish media.

Nokia's prediction of 37 million sold Lumia devices by 2012 was pure insanity. That is something what they could have expected to have if next generation of Symbian devices were to be launched instead. None of the existing Symbian owners were able to move to Windows Phone devices of Nokia since Windows Phone lacks seriously in functionality and doesn't perform even some of the basic stuff iOS, Android and Symbian do.

Besides the funny small fact here is that Symbian shipments apparently where in a notable rise before Nokia announced their move to Windows Phone in February 2011. After said Q1 2011, Symbian shipments took a dive.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/14122_Nokia_Q4_2011-in_the...

My opinion is that if Elop had not announced Nokia's move to Windows Phone, they would still have #1 smartphone platform in the world. This "Elop effect" is a good way to explain what happens when CEO of the world's largest phone manufacturer first causes "Ratner effect" by saying that their "platform is burning" (which it wasn't), and then causes "Osborne Effect" by announcing a year ahead move to Windows Phone when they don't have a product to sell to people.

And then Microsoft causes "Osborne Effect" again by announcing Windows Phone 8 to be released later at the same year when Nokia finally got their flagships out of the house. And that those flagship models cannot be by decision of a Microsoft to be upgraded to the Windows Phone 8.

Elop has failed as a CEO, mission critical task he was given, in a worst way possible in my opinion. And choosing incapable smartphone platform is an epic mistake based on what we currently know.

I think that Nokia should have sticked to Symbian and continued its development towards more competitive platform, and should have lowered their price points for their products. All of their market share leaked to Android and Android is now #1 platform.

False. This actually turned out to be a huge lie. A lie convenient for you, but I hope you stop repeating it.


It's not a lie. Although that's what Stephen Elop would like you to believe about it. Bill here was helpful enough to talk about this issue.

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/01/how-many-lumia...

And while it's true that N9 sales data has not been released. And we cannot know exactly how much was sold. It is very interesting that Nokia has refused to comment sales of N9 and declined to disclose the N9 sales data. If N9 sold poorly, it would have given them another reason to support their reasoning to move to Windows Phone. However if MeeGo/Harmattan sold exceedingly well, it would eat that reasoning behind the move to Windows Phone...

However, before the Windows Phone announcement, Nokia N9 was most sold phone in those areas it was released at. For example in Finland...

http://www.neowin.net/news/nokia-n9-outsells-all-other-phones-in-fi...


Actually, a leaked SDK is out with a full emulator, so yeah, actually, I do have a pretty good idea of what will be in WP8. Maybe if you spent less time regurgitating the N9 outsold Lumia FUD you'd be aware of the fact.


I knew about it since it was reported widely. However I think it's an incomplete SDK with a non-feature complete OS in an emulator. It's made for selected developers so that they can see some of the core features aimed for the developers. If it was complete and done, then logically they'd have already released the complete thing to everybody to enable rapid early development for the Windows Phone 8.

Microsoft certainly isn't going to reveal their full feature set for Windows Phone 8 until it's officially launched. And when it is, I'll be sure to pick it up from:

https://dev.windowsphone.com/en-us/featured/windows-phone-8-sdk

However since you seem more knowledgeable about this. Can you tell more about how Windows Phone 8 is going to issue the list of Windows Phone issues I've linked and talked about here? And other possible handy additions to the functionality of the Windows Phone 8 itself?

Edited 2012-09-09 17:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1