Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 10th Sep 2012 14:51 UTC, submitted by MOS6510
Apple Written by Scott Cleland: "With so many fanboys spinning Silicon Valley history, it's sometimes easy to forget about the real chain of events that led to the ongoing Apple-Google thermonuclear war, how the romance turned to hate. This timeline presents an interesting case about why, despite patents and prior art, Steve Jobs had plenty of personal reasons to despise Schmidt, Page, and Brin." Cleland has a very, very good point; quite coherent and well-reasoned... That is, if you haven't got a single shred of historical sense and completely and utterly ignore the 30-odd years of mobile computing development that preceded our current crop of smartphones. It's hard not to be reminded of how certain groups of people dismiss millions of years of fossil records because this record inconveniences their argument. In any case, a comment on the article answered the question properly: "Jobs was a businessman. He was angry he was losing money. Simple."
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RE: Losing money?
by Yehppael on Mon 10th Sep 2012 16:03 UTC in reply to "Losing money? "
Yehppael
Member since:
2012-08-01

Google, has been steadily growing, almost all the time since it's inception. They're thinking long term.

Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.

Jobs, might know hardware/software and design, but he's done a poor job of when it comes to choosing leadership.

Honestly though, I really have no idea why this is tech news at all, since all this is just business, has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with technology.

Concerning the future, I'd say this, invest in Microsoft and Google, Apple, only if you stay on your toes and can sell everything in a split second.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Losing money?
by Windows Sucks on Mon 10th Sep 2012 16:13 in reply to "RE: Losing money? "
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Google has been growing only in Ad revenue. Any day that people feel they are not getting their bang for their buck though Google its a rap since they have no other revenue sources.

If you look at Apple, the iPhone by its self brings in more money and profits then Microsoft total company. If you scratch the iPhone Apple still makes more money then Microsoft from the rest of their businesses and growing.

Microsoft is basically dead. Windows and Office make them their most money and both are played out. They still make a bunch of money on increased licenses fees, but the days of people getting excited over Microsoft products are long gone.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Losing money?
by Laurence on Mon 10th Sep 2012 16:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Google has been growing only in Ad revenue. Any day that people feel they are not getting their bang for their buck though Google its a rap since they have no other revenue sources.

If you look at Apple, the iPhone by its self brings in more money and profits then Microsoft total company. If you scratch the iPhone Apple still makes more money then Microsoft from the rest of their businesses and growing.

Microsoft is basically dead. Windows and Office make them their most money and both are played out. They still make a bunch of money on increased licenses fees, but the days of people getting excited over Microsoft products are long gone.

You could reverse that view and say that Apple basically only have one revenue stream, and that's from iOS. Where as Microsoft's income is significantly more varied (though granted MS have their cash cows too). But should, overnight, iPhones and iPads stop selling, then Apple could end up in a lot of trouble very quickly.

I wont repeat myself as I go into a lot more detail here: http://www.osnews.com/thread?534606

Suffice to say, I think MS realised they couldn't grow much more and hence why they expended into the console market and such like.

Edited 2012-09-10 16:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Losing money?
by tylerdurden on Mon 10th Sep 2012 16:38 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Wow, could you supply any actual figures to back up your silly claims?

Edited 2012-09-10 16:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Losing money?
by JAlexoid on Mon 10th Sep 2012 17:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

WTF are you smoking there!?!?!
Apple makes money essentially off iPhone and iPad. Anything happens to them - they're dead.
Compared to that, Microsoft can actually hold on for another 10 years - Office on Windows kills anything on Mac.
Google is in a strange place... they kind of have a lot of information hoarded.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Losing money?
by unclefester on Tue 11th Sep 2012 01:32 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Apple make most of their money because phone carriers subsidise their overpriced handsets. The carriers hate providing these subsidies and will drop Apple at the first opportunity. Goodbye Apple.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Losing money?
by Tony Swash on Mon 10th Sep 2012 17:42 in reply to "RE: Losing money? "
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Google, has been steadily growing, almost all the time since it's inception. They're thinking long term.

Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.


Apple are doomed again I see. Suffice to say that Apple have been around for nearly four decades and have reinvented themselves and their products on a number of occasions.

Weaknesses in Google's core business strategy are significant but are obscured by rising revenues. The most important number in Google's recent quarter was revenue-per-click which was down a whopping 16% year on year. The previous quarter it was down 12% year on year. The one before that down 8%. Dollars-per-click is essentially the price of an ad. However Google's ad revenues were up, they managed that feat by packing search results pages with many more money making ads. The volume of clicks have increased but the earned revenue from each click is deteriorating. You can see the evolution of Googles ad density by looking at a typical search page comparison from 2008 and 2012.

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-has-taken-over-its-search-res...

Obviously Google cannot continue packing more ads into search pages and may already be hitting the limits of that strategy. If revenues per click continues the decline shown in the last three quarters, even if the decline slows, then Google will feel the impact financially. Add that to the continuing problem Google faces in earning revenue from ads on mobile devices, which is a problem that the very expensive Android strategy has utterly failed to solve, and Google has some significant pressures on their core business model.

There seems to be a steady drift away from internet access via the desktop and towards access via mobile devices. Nobody seems to be able to earn much from mobile advertising. If you are Apple that makes a tiny part of your business portfolio less profitable, if you are Google that makes your core business less profitable

On the issue of the Apple Google history some basic things are clear. Google did break it's alliance with Apple and did so in a way that was experienced by Apple and it's leadership team as a nasty betrayal of trust. The Android design was reset once the game changing success of the iPhone became apparent to make it basically just like iOS. Google decided to attack Apple's business, as it has attacked the business of other companies large and small, Apple did not attack Google's core business. Who started a war is often forgotten or disputed. What counts is who wins the war. This war is far from over. I know who my money is on (literally).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Losing money?
by BallmerKnowsBest on Mon 10th Sep 2012 22:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Suffice to say that Apple have been around for nearly four decades and have reinvented themselves and their products on a number of occasions.


And they spent one of those decades circling the drain, while releasing products that were steadily more and more pathetic when compared to their competition.

Granted, that was a different time, and many blame those problems on the fact that Steve Jobs was no longer with Apple. And, of course, the situation today is completely differ... oh, wait...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Losing money?
by JAlexoid on Thu 13th Sep 2012 23:20 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Suffice to say that Apple have been around for nearly four decades and have reinvented themselves and their products on a number of occasions.

I'm sorry... Since when is 2 classified as numerous?Computer -> iPod -> iPhone -> (Today)*

*If you do not subscribe that iPad was in development prior to iPhone, then I'll grant you 3 times. But I bet you're not in that camp.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Losing money?
by jared_wilkes on Tue 11th Sep 2012 04:00 in reply to "RE: Losing money? "
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.


You do understand AAPL could lose 50% of its value and would still be 50% more valuable than GOOG, right?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Losing money?
by kwan_e on Tue 11th Sep 2012 08:07 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

"Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.


You do understand AAPL could lose 50% of its value and would still be 50% more valuable than GOOG, right?
"

Yes, but AAPL could easily lose 50% of its value.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Losing money?
by TM99 on Tue 11th Sep 2012 08:55 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

"Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.


You do understand AAPL could lose 50% of its value and would still be 50% more valuable than GOOG, right?
"

And only a fanboy would try to compare these two companies. They are not in the same market. No matter who makes the hardware/software, Google's business model is safe and shows steady future growth. They are not dependent upon 'fads' or popularity. No one can compete currently with their services. Could it change? Perhaps. But it is not as high a probability as the negatives that can and will befall Apple.

If Apple loses one patent case, there stock is predicted by market analyst far smarter than you to drop at least 50 to 100 points. As you pointed out, Apple is a 40 year old company. Apple is currently trading in the market in a parabolic fashion. This happens at the end and not the middle of a cycle. Apple can not maintain this rate of growth for much longer. Analysts conservatively predict low 700's for the remainder of this year and if all goes well maxing out in 2013 around 1000. Then the bubble will burst. It has to.

Apple is not immune to the economics that all businesses are a part of. There is nothing so special about Apple as a corporation which means they will never have this bubble burst and then settle down to a long-term steady state. Their target markets are becoming saturated. There is a great deal of competition in those market segments in spite of Apple's willingness to litigate against it. This entire market as a whole has been bolstered by cheap money in the last four years. As the rate rises, problems will occur. Apple will also need an infusion of capital to attempt to maintain this 'innovation' on a quarterly basis. Most of their cash is held overseas. It is not a matter of if but rather when Apple needs that cash brought back to America, they are going to be hit with a higher tax rate than they have in a decade.

Finally while Apple is currently the highest market cap stock in the world, it is still lower than Microsoft at their peak in 1999. And their 4.3% weighting in the S&P 500 is still significantly lower than IBM's record high of 6.4% in 1982.

Apple is the belle of the ball. The market will tire of her 'innovations' and Apple's stock will crash. The question is have they made the right choices to allow them to maintain a steady business after the high (like Microsoft and IBM) and not disappear once and for all as other have before them - Polaroid, Sun, SGI, etc. They are betting the farm on iOS and the mobile/tablet market. That is a big bet given how fads come and go.

Jobs and Apple's emotional obsession with Google/Android and their 'supposed' copying is ridiculous. Betting a company and basing your current decisions on an emotionally driven tirade and not sound business fundamentals is a sure sign that a company, no matter how popular, is destined for a very bad fall from grace.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Losing money?
by TM99 on Tue 11th Sep 2012 09:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Losing money? "
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

"Make this comparison in another 10 years. If Apple still exists by then.


You do understand AAPL could lose 50% of its value and would still be 50% more valuable than GOOG, right?
"

AAPL's current market cap is approximately 600B. GOOG's current market cap is approximately 250B. If AAPL lost 50% of its market cap it wouldn't be worth that much more in the market than GOOG.

Take a look at the historical graphs of these two corporations to see why Apple is in a 'bubble'. Google has been a publicly traded company for roughly seven years and has shown consistent and steady growth with only a single minor dip. Apple on the other hand has been a publicly traded company for 25 years and has shown only an incredibly rapid rise in value in the last three years. Historically Apple traded well below 100 and Google opened at 105. Apple didn't breach 100 until 2007 and in that same year Google was around 500.

Reply Parent Score: 4