Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 10th Sep 2012 14:51 UTC, submitted by MOS6510
Apple Written by Scott Cleland: "With so many fanboys spinning Silicon Valley history, it's sometimes easy to forget about the real chain of events that led to the ongoing Apple-Google thermonuclear war, how the romance turned to hate. This timeline presents an interesting case about why, despite patents and prior art, Steve Jobs had plenty of personal reasons to despise Schmidt, Page, and Brin." Cleland has a very, very good point; quite coherent and well-reasoned... That is, if you haven't got a single shred of historical sense and completely and utterly ignore the 30-odd years of mobile computing development that preceded our current crop of smartphones. It's hard not to be reminded of how certain groups of people dismiss millions of years of fossil records because this record inconveniences their argument. In any case, a comment on the article answered the question properly: "Jobs was a businessman. He was angry he was losing money. Simple."
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RE[7]: Losing money?
by Laurence on Mon 10th Sep 2012 22:08 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Losing money? "
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

This says nothing but speaks to your personal self-delusions.

oh goody. Personal insults. I forgot it was impossible to discuss Apple without normally rational adults turning into complete arsehats....

Nonsense. Apple is way, way, way ahead in profit, revenue, margin,

...which is what i just said

inventory mgmt, supply chain, etc...

Not really. Samsung aren't that far behind Apple and Nokia and RIM probably aren't either (in fact if you talk about cell phones in general, then Nokia are probably ahead).

Well, okay, let's assume they are "only" ahead in income and stock price. Making more income from a smaller fraction of the market is riskier than making less money from a bigger fraction of the market? Seriously? Because I'm pretty sure making twice as much money as the entire rest of the industry with only 15% market share is a massive, massive advantage.

I didn't say that either. I said making more income from a smaller fraction of an easily replicated market was risky. Some financial analysts refer to this as a companies "moat"; basically how fortified they are from other businesses competing with a similar products. In Apples case, it's very easy for competitors - as Google have proven with the rise of Android.

I'm not saying Apple are going to crash tomorrow - or even ever. Just that Apple aren't sitting as securely as Microsoft were or even are now.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Losing money?
by jared_wilkes on Mon 10th Sep 2012 22:59 in reply to "RE[7]: Losing money? "
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

I forgot it was impossible to discuss Apple without normally rational adults turning into complete arsehats....


This is what you said:

That's assuming they survive the subsequent crash of their share prices after their financial bubble bursts.


NO, it's not assuming. You are making a massively unsupported argument that Apple WILL crash. What is your evidence for this? Most evidence supports Apple as having the healthiest position in the marketplace. There is also historical evidence of Apple surviving far more precarious circumstances (2% share of one market, only 1.5 billion in cash, some quarterly losses, etc.). But I, ME?, I'm assuming that Apple somehow manages to survive this mythical crash that's not happening.

...which is what i just said


Did you? I have no idea what your point is. You said "Apple have to artificially sustain their shares by creating the illusion that they're dominating the market." So now you are saying Apple's industry leading revenues, profits, margins are not an illusion but are actually real? Because I thought you said Apple was tricking everybody and needs to keep fooling them, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Apple's financial lead in the smartphone market is real and not illusory in the least.

In Apples case, it's very easy for competitors - as Google have proven with the rise of Android.


We've witnessed 3 smartphone leaders disappear (Palm, SE, and MMI acquired) and all of the rest, except Samsung, are losing money or barely breaking even. All of these remaining players have fewer units (we won't even touch financials) than Apple. The two leading market encumbants (RIM, Nokia) are falling apart. And Google may make a few billion that it would have made regardless of whether or not Android existed at all. I don't see anyone having an easy time competing with Apple. Only Samsung is competing at all, and I don't think it's easy. On unfair, maybe illegal, and brutally hard fought terms, but not easily.

I'm not saying Apple are going to crash tomorrow - or even ever.


You bring it up an awful lot though.

Edited 2012-09-10 23:04 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[9]: Losing money?
by jared_wilkes on Mon 10th Sep 2012 23:39 in reply to "RE[8]: Losing money? "
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Let's be clear: I'm saying Apple leads in most of the most important factors for ecosystem/company health (moat protections, network effects, financials, its audience, etc.) by a massive margin but does not dominate any market (they are usually self-selective for a minority share of a broader market). You are saying that Apple doesn't lead any of these categories (or where it does, they are illusory) and is at greatest risk of collapse so it has to delude investors, the markets, consumers, and competition into believing that it leads these categories that it does not lead. Correct? Incorrect?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[9]: Losing money?
by Laurence on Tue 11th Sep 2012 00:14 in reply to "RE[8]: Losing money? "
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


NO, it's not assuming. You are making a massively unsupported argument that Apple WILL crash.

Don't be so fucking ridiculous. I was playing out a worst case scenario based upon years of continued exponential growth but with little additional support outside the iOS arena.

I've said a multitude of times that I can't foresee Apple crashing under normal circumstances. I was using an extreme worst case scenario to explain why Apple need to watch their growth carefully and ensure that they have "safety nets" to ensure that, once the market reaches maximum saturation, that they can at the very least find a stable plateau.

And I'm stating all this as my reasoning for why they are after sales bans rather than licensing. Basically I was countering the other commenters view that Apple are missing an opportunity by not licensing their patents and then giving a (somewhat long winded) explanation as to why.

So all in all, you're being far to emotional about Apple as you're twisting my comments way out of proportion. But then I guess sanity isn't one of the side effects of being a fanboy :p


What is your evidence for this? Most evidence supports Apple as having the healthiest position in the marketplace.

I'd already cited evidence from one financial expert.


There is also historical evidence of Apple surviving far more precarious circumstances (2% share of one market, only 1.5 billion in cash, some quarterly losses, etc.).

To be fair, Apple only survived due to cash injections from Microsoft, and MS only did that to avoid a total monopoly and guaranteed break up.

But that's besides the point. I don't think Apple are going to crash any more than I think exponential growth is sustainable indefinitely.


Did you? I have no idea what your point is.

You've not really given it a fair read though as you've been to busy going "OMG APPLE HATER!!" :p


You bring it up an awful lot though.

Because if you don't account for the worst case scenario then you cannot prevent it from happening. And thus the reason I raise it is to demonstrate that Apple have realised that their growth cannot be sustained indefinitely without protecting their revenue.

I was simply offering some background to explain their motives. Not a suggestion that Apple will crash. You just took the negatives of my posts and ignored everything else - then got all defensive for no reason!

Anyway, we're going round in circles now. So goodnight ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4