Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 14th Sep 2012 22:30 UTC
Intel You'd think this sort of stuff belonged to the past - but no. Apparently, Microsoft is afraid of Android on its Windows 8 tablets, because Intel has just announced that it will provide no support for Linux on its clover Trail processors. Supposedly, this chip is "designed for Windows 8". What?
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RE[2]: Comment by stabbyjones
by winter skies on Fri 14th Sep 2012 23:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by stabbyjones"
winter skies
Member since:
2009-08-21

Be careful with your proprietary software bashing. The world would be much worse off if proprietary systems and software disappeared. I hope you realize that, and then realize the grim reality of "be careful what you wish for" the all-software-should-be-free bible thumpers readily ignore.


Whoa, let's be careful with proprietary software bashing or we could cause society grat trouble!
Now "the world would be much worse" is an assumption you must be very insightful - almost omniscient - to make, as it's quite a demanding task to guess how a world without proprietary software would be. Anyway that hypoetical world has absolutely nothing to do with the topic here. It's so far-fetched you must have felt at least on the edge of bad faith writing your comment.
Nobody would freakin ever complain about proprietary software if there wasn't the suspicion - as in this case - that someone's trying to compete outside the boundaries of what's legitimate this way damaging other entities.
What the heck has this to do with hating proprietary software? All players should just play fair, but maybe that's outside the scope for some of them. The details aren't known yet, but I would get very annoyed by a hypotetical company making it more difficult for an open source OS to support a new processor. It sounds like a steer from the usual Intel policy and as such it does not seem to be happening just by chance.

If you think this shows how bad free software supporters are (the vast majority of which I'm sure don't want proprietary software to disappear but just like having more choice and the possibility to know what the code they're using really does) feel free to voice your personal reality, but be aware it sounds quite crazy.

Reply Parent Score: 9

v RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones
by ilovebeer on Sat 15th Sep 2012 01:24 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

and take a look at what advancements have come as a result of free & open systems.


The internet.

Reply Parent Score: 12

Gullible Jones Member since:
2006-05-23

Technological advances driven by the market are all well and good, but they're not very useful if people who would benefit can't afford them.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by dsmogor on Sat 15th Sep 2012 11:46 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

If Intel developed a chip line to work specifically with linux would you still be so upset? Are you actually expecting everyone to believe that Intel apparently partnering with Microsoft for a specific product line is outrageous? Have you even bothered to look up what other companies have done or are doing the exact thing?

Care to come out with an example?
Besides if the source is available linux support in slightly longer term means basically universal support.
Exclusivity is exclusive to closed systems world.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones
by bassbeast on Sat 15th Sep 2012 02:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by stabbyjones"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

The simple fact is ALL FOSS software suffers from the "busted toilet" problem. What is the busted toilet problem?

Its simple, if I ask you to paint me a picture or write me a song for free? i'll have dozens to choose from, some of which will probably be good. If I ask you to come and fix my nasty busted toilet? I hope I enjoy peeing in the sink because it ain't happening.

What does that have to do with software? Simple, regressions testing, bug fixing, QA and QC, all of these jobs are boring, tedious, thankless and dull jobs and in Linux...they just don't get done. Don't take My word for it, go to any bug tracker and see how old some of the bugs are, Ubuntu for example has 6+ year old bugs in their bug tracker.

The simple fact is with paid software if they don't fix? People don't buy and they go out of business. Apple and MS pay millions upon millions of dollars to do those lousy stinking jobs which is why your desktop doesn't crash when you switch from a video to a chat window like X-Server has been known to do, those kinds of bugs get fixed because the corp pays to have them fixed.

I really wish FOSS didn't have this problem, as a retailer I'd love a "third way" and frankly MS doesn't do us little guys ANY favors on pricing, but its simply human nature. The reason it works on servers and Android works on phones? Google spends a billion a year on Android, corps spend hundreds of millions on Linux server so those bugs ARE being paid to be fixed. Its just because there is really no money to be made on the desktop (MS makes money by selling licenses by the hundreds of millions, without that kind of scale you can't compete) nobody is sinking that money into it and the bugs just don't get fixed.

Every year the desktop gets prettier, because again creating pretty things is a natural part of the human animal, but better? Nope, not really.

Reply Parent Score: -1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The simple fact is ALL FOSS software suffers from the "busted toilet" problem


Sweeping generalization, it's the new fact. This is bullshit. There's good OSS software and bad OSS software, just like how there's good closed-source software and bad closed-source software.

and in Linux...they just don't get done.


Because Linux is the only OSS software in the world and even if it isn't we can extrapolate from it to everything else. There are many OSS projects with rigorous testing, both manual and automated, and there are many closed-source companies that does neither.

The simple fact is with paid software if they don't fix? People don't buy and they go out of business


Wow, really. This is just as much nonsense as "all OSs software is crap". It's simply not true. Sometimes bugs get fixed in a timely manner, sometimes it takes forever and sometimes it never happens. This is regardless of if the software is closed or open.

which is why your desktop doesn't crash when you switch from a video to a chat window like X-Server has been known to do


Yes, naturally. Closed-source is bug free and when it isn't all bugs are fixed in a timely manner. Hmm..yeah, maybe in some alternate reality.
I've never had this problem, EVER, on my OSS desktops; be it Linux or BSD.

Every year the desktop gets prettier, because again creating pretty things is a natural part of the human animal, but better? Nope, not really.


Wait, are you talking about OSS or closed-source software?

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by Neolander on Sat 15th Sep 2012 06:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

The simple fact is with paid software if they don't fix? People don't buy and they go out of business.

It seems to me that you're missing the core ingredient of lock-in here.

A large part of today's dominant proprietary software is so buggy and painful to use that it surely never goes through serious QA anymore. Why do people keep buying then ? Because they need something to support their proprietary formats, their proprietary protocols, their proprietary hardware...

Software actors are not fairly competing in a free market with flying unicorns, glittery rainbows, and happiness all around. Everyone has its dirty weapons that the others cannot compete with, and will not hesitate to use it. Including the open-source actors.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by Nth_Man on Sat 15th Sep 2012 08:42 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

dull jobs and in Linux...they just don't get done. Don't take My word for it

The White House, for example, uses Linux and Drupal and it's there working in spite of usual attacks.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=whitehouse.gov
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/07/24/white_house_web_site_moves/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/developers

your desktop doesn't crash when you switch from a video to a chat window like X-Server

People can see by themselves how it doesn't happen with good software. Don't take my word for it, if people want to try it by themselves, there's a "Virtual machine of Kubuntu 11.04 i386 Desktop, stable version" on
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B2UJmdRmDlL1VmRWZ3dfaGdJTUU/edit
to conduct experiments on it. Just don't update it to an upper version of Kubuntu and, before updating a GUI program, close that program.

I usually employ a copy of it as a virtual machine and it works stably, too.

About it, there is a README.txt on the same web address.

If someone has any doubt, on this thread you can make questions.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by dsmogor on Sat 15th Sep 2012 11:53 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The same argumenthave been repeated times an again in the last 20 years, every time OSS software is meant to be drployed in direct competition agains software of some corp.
In fact im niw working in a system that has both closed and open components (both mainyained by the same company) but thanks to Java closed libs are easy to decompile. Guess which one has better quality and which better handles corner cases ans has less bugs.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by Lennie on Sun 16th Sep 2012 09:28 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

You are confused.

People being payed to write software does not mean closed software.

What you are talking about is business paying for developing software, that has nothing to do with closed software.

Of couse there are old bugs in Ubuntu, this is the first bug and it still hasn't been fixed:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1

Reply Parent Score: 3