Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 14th Sep 2012 22:30 UTC
Intel You'd think this sort of stuff belonged to the past - but no. Apparently, Microsoft is afraid of Android on its Windows 8 tablets, because Intel has just announced that it will provide no support for Linux on its clover Trail processors. Supposedly, this chip is "designed for Windows 8". What?
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RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones
by Neolander on Sat 15th Sep 2012 06:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

The simple fact is with paid software if they don't fix? People don't buy and they go out of business.

It seems to me that you're missing the core ingredient of lock-in here.

A large part of today's dominant proprietary software is so buggy and painful to use that it surely never goes through serious QA anymore. Why do people keep buying then ? Because they need something to support their proprietary formats, their proprietary protocols, their proprietary hardware...

Software actors are not fairly competing in a free market with flying unicorns, glittery rainbows, and happiness all around. Everyone has its dirty weapons that the others cannot compete with, and will not hesitate to use it. Including the open-source actors.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones
by moondevil on Sat 15th Sep 2012 12:11 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

How do you propose to make money out of free software?

In many European countries a software developer gets to earn at least 1000€ per month.

What is your proposal to have a company developing free software, server side, desktop, embedded, whatever platform, while being able to pay the developers and the usual monthly costs?

For the typical answer of offering the software and asking money for support and trainings, what do you do to keep your company alive, when I take your free software and charge less for support?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by TechGeek on Sat 15th Sep 2012 18:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

All you have to do is look at Red Hat. They have been going through 25% growth quarter after quarter pretty much since they went IPO. They don't seem to have a problem with the Open Source way.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by chithanh on Sat 15th Sep 2012 21:27 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
chithanh Member since:
2006-06-18

How do you propose to make money out of free software?

This question has been answered many times, and a number of business models exist to subsist on free software.

1) You can offer support by the "gurus" of the software
2) You can dual-license your software, asking money for the commercial license
3) You can sell non-free add-ons to your software
4) You can enter contracts for implementing customer desired features
5) You can lure users of your product into consuming your content/visiting your websites/etc.
6) You can create entirely new markets or overtake existing ones

Red Hat employs a number of kernel developers for the first reason. Also they do #4.
Digium (Asterisk) does at least #1, #2 and #3.
IBM, when they invested $1 bln in Linux certainly had #6 in mind.
Trolltech, before they were bought by Nokia, did #1, #2, #3 and #4, and after being bought stopped doing #3.
Mozilla Corporation, the for-profit subsidy of the Mozilla foundation, does #4 and #5

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by boldingd on Mon 17th Sep 2012 09:07 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

How do you propose to make money out of free software?


The more important question is, how is that relevant to goddamned anything, much less the previous two posts?

FOSS software projects don't exist to make money; they exist to create software that their contributors want to use. That's the motivation; if I make a program that I find useful, maybe if I make the source available, other people will find it useful too, and maybe improve it to be useful to them. And if I GPL my software, maybe I'll get them to send me the changes they make.

The "broken toilet" problem half-exists: the problem, to the extent that it's a problem, isn't that people won't do nasty and thankless work, it's that developers tend to focus their efforts on the problems that impact them personally as they use the software.

And for-pay software has the same problem. Many commercial software developers spend at least as much effort making you have to use their software as they do making you want to use their software. Many are the small businesses that deeply despise their accounting system, but they can't migrate because the shitty software won't let them export their data.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by Neolander on Mon 17th Sep 2012 09:14 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

How do you propose to make money out of free software?

In many European countries a software developer gets to earn at least 1000€ per month.

What is your proposal to have a company developing free software, server side, desktop, embedded, whatever platform, while being able to pay the developers and the usual monthly costs?

For the typical answer of offering the software and asking money for support and trainings, what do you do to keep your company alive, when I take your free software and charge less for support?

Free software in a GNU sense ? I don't know. But for open-source software, I'd suggest granting every licensee access to the software source code for private use, and keeping as many redistribution rights on derivatives as you need for yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, source code should always be available alongside software, but free redistribution of said source and its derivatives is a separate matter.

In fact, I've recently worked on a software license draft that attempts to separate both concerns better than current OSS licenses. I will soon submit it to the OSI in order to get lawyer review, and to discuss other potential issues with their licensing gurus. If all is good, and I get OSI approval, I'll then submit something about it on OSnews.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by lemur2 on Mon 17th Sep 2012 10:12 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

How do you propose to make money out of free software?


There is more than one way to make money. If one sells a product or service, there are two main ways of making more money: (1) increase the price of the product or service whilst trying to maintain the volume of sales, or (2) reduce the costs of production of the product or service.

Freedom software is quality software made by its users. It is made by collaboration in a loose organisation which is effectively a consumer's co-operative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_cooperative

"Consumer cooperatives are enterprises owned by consumers and managed democratically which aim at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members. They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit."

"The major difference between consumers' cooperatives and other forms of business is that the purpose of a consumers' cooperative association is to provide quality goods and services at the lowest cost to the consumer/owners rather than to sell goods and services at the highest price above cost that the consumer is willing to pay."


So, in effect, freedom software (aka FOSS) makes money via method 2 above. It makes money by reducing production costs (in this case, the cost of software). This of course only works if the product being sold is itself not software. It only works to make more money for businesses where software is a cost of production, and not the product for sale.

Example:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/72867.html

'They Will Save a Fortune'

"Linux makes a fantastic embedded platform," consultant and Slashdot blogger Gerhard Mack opined. "I bet even with the gold membership they will still save a fortune compared to going with closed source competitors."

Indeed, "it's completely expected," agreed Chris Travers, a Slashdot blogger who works on the LedgerSMB project. "Embedded space is going more and more towards Linux."


You do seem very confused about the economics of open source. Hope this helps.

Edited 2012-09-17 10:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by lemur2 on Mon 17th Sep 2012 11:15 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

How do you propose to make money out of free software?

In many European countries a software developer gets to earn at least 1000€ per month.

What is your proposal to have a company developing free software, server side, desktop, embedded, whatever platform, while being able to pay the developers and the usual monthly costs?

For the typical answer of offering the software and asking money for support and trainings, what do you do to keep your company alive, when I take your free software and charge less for support?


This is not the way it works, at all. To make money out of open source, one uses open source software to produce something, or provide a service, more cheaply than would be the case if one used closed source instead. One makes money by using the software to make or provide something else, other than software, at reduced costs.

Here is yet another example:
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/315490,study-urges-cios-to-choose-ope...

Study urges CIOs to choose open source first

"Norton cited studies from the London School of Economics which found that investments to deploy open source in-house drives longer-term savings of 20 percent over the alternatives."

" Specific to the travel industry, the report’s financier Amadeus has gradually been shifting its sizeable airline transaction processing business (bookings, reservations, flight management) from proprietary platforms to Linux (SuSE, predominantly).

It also uses the Apache web server and Tomcat application server, among other common tools.

The company’s 4500 developers use the open source Eclipse development tool, and its sales and marketing team use SugarCRM.

Amadeus has also become a contributor to the open source effort. Late last month it donated its user interface framework, ARIA, to the open source community under an Apache license.

It is hoped that travel industry customers might save money at the front-end using these free UI templates for common travel industry functions, and invariably then see the value in outsourcing the remainder (back-end processing) to Amadeus.

“We commissioned this study to highlight to our customers and shareholders our use of open systems and contribution to open systems,”"

Reply Parent Score: 2