Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 26th Sep 2012 20:16 UTC, submitted by Bob Stein
Windows ActiveWin.com has just posted their 45-page, 40-screenshot review of Microsoft Windows 8. The review covers many different aspects of the OS including performance, security, application compatibility, and more. "Is Windows 8 a hit or miss? It's a hit, it is clearly Microsoft's most bold development in years, it probably beats out the transition from Program Manager (Windows 3X) to Windows 95, the move from Windows 9x to the NT Kernel. The Windows 8 platform represents so many things: truly touch centric, support for modern processor architectures, fast and fluid as Microsoft puts it and also represents where the majority of the world is heading when it comes to computing, entirely mobile."
Thread beginning with comment 536634
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
saso
Member since:
2007-04-18

27" is not something a majority of users even have.

And you determined this... how? All of Dell's new all-in-one desktop machines are either 20'' or bigger (I tried it on their flagship product in this category, the XPS One 27''). All new monitors we buy are 24'' at a minimum. Your statement is simply at variation with reality.

So of course the touch experience will be a little awkward.

Then why the hell even put it there?

On a tablet, or on a laptop, it really isn't half bad.

I was talking about touch screens on desktops. You're arguing against something I didn't say.

Especially on a laptop with updated touch pad drivers to allow for Windows 8 gestures.
Going forward, all Windows 8 devices will come with optimized touch pads, touch screens, touch accessories, or a combination of all three. Windows sets the new standard, and subsequently hardware will be released to match it.
A great majority of all Windows 8 sales are brand new device sales, so I can't envision this being a problem for anyone other than a select type of user.

This Dell machine is a brand new just-released-to-market product that was designed with Windows 8 in mind. Your argument simply doesn't hold water.

Also your last bit about the actionbar is incorrect. You can swipe in from the bottom and it calls both top and bottom action bars.

I tried multiple times on two different machines. It worked on neither. Since the Windows 8 release on them was marked RTM I assumed this wasn't a bug.

Reply Parent Score: 1

saso Member since:
2007-04-18

Your statement is simply at variation with reality.

Minor correction here, I meant to say something in the sense of "Your statement is irrelevant". That is to say that while strictly speaking, yes, the majority of computer users may not have a 27'' screen (simply because the majority of computers sold are laptops), it is irrelevant to the point I was making (desktop machines with touch screens). On desktops screens in the ~23-30'' range are really quite common and the Metro UI simply doesn't scale to it (either with or without touch; points 3 and 4 of my original post pertain to non-touch screens just as much as touch-enabled ones).

Reply Parent Score: 0

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


And you determined this... how? All of Dell's new all-in-one desktop machines are either 20'' or bigger (I tried it on their flagship product in this category, the XPS One 27''). All new monitors we buy are 24'' at a minimum. Your statement is simply at variation with reality.


I think you realized what a stupid reply this was. The majority of screen sizes are 20 inches and below.


Then why the hell even put it there?


At those sizes, touch augments, not replaces, the interaction experience. You didn't touch your All In One for everything prior, did you?


I was talking about touch screens on desktops. You're arguing against something I didn't say.


It would make sense of you didn't mince my point and nitpick. I was saying that in contrast, touch is designed to be the only input method has a falling off point you're rapidly approaching. It also coincides with your exotic choice of hardware.

You're outside the norm expecting norm results.



This Dell machine is a brand new just-released-to-market product that was designed with Windows 8 in mind. Your argument simply doesn't hold water.


Really? Which model? Dells W8 AIO lineup isn't out yet. I know because I'm looking for one.

The Windows 7 class hardware multitouch digitizer isn't up to snuff with new W8 requirements which is why charms bars can be hit or miss, why its usually only three or five point multi touch, and why responsiveness falls off toward the center.


I tried multiple times on two different machines. It worked on neither. Since the Windows 8 release on them was marked RTM I assumed this wasn't a bug.


Windows Store doesn't even have a bottom app bar, it has a green top one. And in IE a bottom swipe brings up the top app bar. Same with other apps.

In fact this is baked into the SDK if you check the MSDN documents.

Reply Parent Score: 3

saso Member since:
2007-04-18

I think you realized what a stupid reply this was.

I've already clarified this part about a half hour before you responded. But obviously that didn't stop you from dismissing out of hand what I said. Quite dishonest, don't you think?

The majority of screen sizes are 20 inches and below.

Not on desktops, which is what I was talking about (you know, the title of my post said "Touch on a desktop machine..."). But hey, when you're strawmanning my position, why stop now?

At those sizes, touch augments, not replaces, the interaction experience. You didn't touch your All In One for everything prior, did you?

I wasn't touching it at all, since when using the keyboard and mouse I'm sitting much further away from the machine. Even so points 3, 4 and 5 still stand - Metro simply doesn't scale well to large machines (not to mention the fact that it utterly fails at multi-monitoring).

My original post was as a result of me doing a deliberate touch-only test to see if it is usable. My conclusion is that it is not. I had to put the keyboard and mouse aside, since they were in the way, so using it as an augmentation is nonsense. It's either-or. Any combination felt awkward and I had to continually adjust my seating position and move the keyboard/mouse around on the table (to have a place where to rest my elbows).

It would make sense of you didn't mince my point and nitpick.

It would make sense if you didn't strawman my position. I never said touch screens don't work on small/handheld devices. In fact, I said quite the opposite:
Thus I conclude that this UI was clearly intended for tablets/smartphones, not desktops.


I was saying that in contrast, touch is designed to be the only input method has a falling off point you're rapidly approaching.

That is all nice and sweet, but what about the desktop machine users (such, oh I don't know, about 95% of the enterprise?) who do have large screens? Microsoft clearly intends this interface to be *the* method to interact with their new OS. Are they willing to relegate an entire extremely important market segment over to the "legacy" column?

It's nice that Windows 8 works well in some areas - woohoo for them. But that doesn't solve the problem of it sucking in some other scenarios. Users don't average their experience over all market segments.

It also coincides with your exotic choice of hardware. You're outside the norm expecting norm results.

Excuse me? This is one of the flagship desktop machines from Dell. The mere fact that it's "all-in-one" means jack shit - users don't care if the components of the computer are crammed up behind the screen or sit in a separate box on the floor. The important bit is the interface - the touch screen. But perhaps you're one of those mobile hipsters who thinks desktop machines are dead. Well guess what, a majority of businesses and enterprise users aren't going to give them up any time soon, and even personal-use laptops are often attached to an external KVM. It's just the nature of the user interface - large screens with comfy keyboards and mice are still much more usable than the crammed, dumbed down micro-interfaces of mobile machines.

Really? Which model?

That you can't see which model I meant about shows me the level of your reading comprehension. I wrote which model I tried in my first response to you.

Dells W8 AIO lineup isn't out yet. I know because I'm looking for one.

The occasion when I tried this machine was at a consumer electronics show - Dell was showing how their "future W8 desktops" would look like. It was exactly like this one: http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/30/dell-announces-xps-one-27-aio-ru...

The Windows 7 class hardware multitouch digitizer isn't up to snuff with new W8 requirements which is why charms bars can be hit or miss, why its usually only three or five point multi touch, and why responsiveness falls off toward the center.

The machine will remain in production for the coming 2 years. It was been designed with W8 in mind.

The Windows 7 class hardware multitouch digitizer isn't up to snuff with new W8 requirements which is why charms bars can be hit or miss, why its usually only three or five point multi touch, and why responsiveness falls off toward the center.

My problem wasn't with the machine not registering or misinterpreting my touches, so it wasn't a hardware/driver/whatever issue. My problems stemmed from the fact of how the interface itself is designed, so all I tried was pre-installed Microsoft stuff (there wasn't anything custom by Dell in there).

Windows Store doesn't even have a bottom app bar, it has a green top one.

IIRC it was the "Games" tile on the home screen, which should be part of the Store app, but it might have been the "Messaging" app. I didn't install anything 3rd party for sure (since the machine wasn't linked to a Live account).

And in IE a bottom swipe brings up the top app bar. Same with other apps. In fact this is baked into the SDK if you check the MSDN documents.

I can only comment on my experience, I haven't checked any documentation. IE shows the address bar at the bottom and the tabs at the top. Swipe in from the top showed both, swipe in from the bottom did nothing.

Reply Parent Score: 0