Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 27th Sep 2012 18:44 UTC, submitted by MOS6510
Linux "I was in a coffee shop in Portland, Oregon and happened to spot Linus Torvalds sitting alone at a window table. I asked the creator of the Linux operating system and the Git source code control system if I could join him. Over the next fifteen minutes we talked about programming and programmers." Editor's Note: We've realized it's unclear whether this is a satirical interview or not. We don't know, so YMMV.
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RE[5]: What is the point...
by tylerdurden on Thu 27th Sep 2012 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: What is the point..."
tylerdurden
Member since:
2009-03-17

You seem to be defining "Arrogance" in terms of other people daring to have a different opinion than yours. If such is the case, then perhaps you may be telling us more about yourself, via projection, than Torvalds's supposed character flaws.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: What is the point...
by ebasconp on Fri 28th Sep 2012 00:25 in reply to "RE[5]: What is the point..."
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Actually I respect his technical achievements a lot (I would have to be a fool to ignore them); I also respect people that thinks different to other people and respect good arguments and discussions (here in OSnews, the good quality level of discussions is amazingly good).

But after reading several comments and quotes that Linus says about technology he does not like; the "arrogant" word is the only one that comes to my mind.

Do you like comments like this one:

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus ?

He blames C++ because he thinks it is horrible, no providing any technical detail. Ok, Linux is nice, is written in C; but a lot of beautiful and huge software is written in C++ (e.g. KDE) and the developers of such software deserve a lot of respect and admiration.

Or this one:

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00021.htm...

where Linux bashes Gnome in an aggresive way?

He can dislike anything, but being unrespectful takes a lot of respect towards him away.

Edited 2012-09-28 00:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: What is the point...
by ze_jerkface on Fri 28th Sep 2012 00:38 in reply to "RE[6]: What is the point..."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

He blames C++ because he thinks it is horrible, no providing any technical detail.


He hasn't fully explained his kernel abi position either. Yes he calls it "non-sense" but both Windows and OSX have one and don't suffer any performance benefits because of it.

Someone should ask him how a 3 year abi would slow down Linux. Like have him specifically point to a period in time where it would have caused problems. Or ask him if in-tree drivers are ever broken. Everyone who interviews him gets a geek crush and throws him softballs.

Everyone has their faults and Linus can be pigheaded.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: What is the point...
by galvanash on Fri 28th Sep 2012 04:08 in reply to "RE[6]: What is the point..."
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Do you like comments like this one:

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus ?

He blames C++ because he thinks it is horrible, no providing any technical detail.


Did you actually read what he was responding to?


> When I first looked at Git source code two things
> struck me as odd:
> 1. Pure C as opposed to C++. No idea why. Please
> don't talk about portability, it's BS.


Are you saying that is real question? That is a troll if I ever saw one... I think he was just responding in kind.

I get that some people love C++ and think Linus' pathological hatred for it are unfathomable - well it goes both ways. Some people just love C and think that those of us who use C++ are slightly brain damaged... I'm not saying I agree with that attitude by the way - just pointing out that when a long time C developer hears "why didn't you do that in C++" for the 5000th time they have a tendency to snap.

Civility is not always the appropriate response. If you believe something strongly enough, and have heard the counter arguments so often that you know them by heart and still are convinced you are right, what exactly is the point of having a civil debate over it? You already know how it will end...

Sometimes "f*ck off" is the right way to handle it.

Disclaimer: I actually think C++ is a perfectly fine language and don't agree with everything Linus says about it. But he does make some good points on why it isn't appropriate for kernel work. More importantly though, I appreciate the fact that he speaks his mind and doesn't cave to herd mentality - because I think herd mentality is way more dangerous than C ever was. There is something to be said for people who are willing to say what they think even when they know it won't be popular...

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[7]: What is the point...
by tylerdurden on Fri 28th Sep 2012 23:25 in reply to "RE[6]: What is the point..."
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

The thing is that Linus has a very successful track record of "shipped" projects, so if you keep trying to make qualitative arguments to emotional appeal you're going to look foolish, because you, as an anonymous unknown quantity simply do not have any authority.



So yeah, you may not agree with his views and opinions, and that is OK. But calling hims "arrogant" because he dares not sharing your point of view, that strikes me, as I said earlier, a bit projective from your part. I think the issue some people have with Linus is that he can not only talk the talk, but walk the walk, and he is aware of that fact. And that seems to not sit well with some people, for some reason.

If you don't like his opinions and/or projects, then do not use them.

Edited 2012-09-28 23:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4