Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 16th Oct 2012 12:14 UTC
Windows After yesterday's TV advertisement, Microsoft finally unveiled the pricing for its Surface tablet - the ARM Windows RT version that is. The cheapest Surface - 32GB without touch cover - will set you back $499. They're aiming straight for iPad pricing here, ignoring the popular cheaper Android offerings. Update: only available in Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom and the United States. As usual.
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lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

As for their desktops, consumers really have no choice but to buy a desktop with windows pre-installed. Because ms forces consumers to use windows (through their oem deals with hardware manufacturers) they are really doing a disservice to the public because there is millions of consumers who despise windows.


Citation needed*

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-037-OP

(note the no OS option, and you save £91) ... Check your facts please.


Also nobody has a gun pointed at their head and forced to buy a Windows laptop. If you want an alternative there are options out there to buy a system that is made for your needs.

It is like me complaining in the UK most bicycles are sold by Halfords and claiming Halfords are a monopoly.

The fact is that bicycle in Halfords are good enough for what most people want to do (get to work and back and some exercise on weekends).

They don't cater for me who wishes to have an Italian Steel Frame, Italian components and matching coloured parts.

I am a niche market and I pay likewise for my niche cycling interests.

It is not different in the PC world. Either pay the companies that are interested in supporting you extra or follow the crowd.


Not only that, windows is used in many government institutions such as public schools, so taxpayers are indirectly paying for windows and microsoft services.


So? There are these things called budgets, people make a decision on how much that budget should be and what it should be used for.

If you wish to petition your case to your representative please do so, it isn't Microsoft's fault that someone chose to buy their products that was within their budget that was afforded to them.

Maybe you should question your elected representatives rather than ranting about it on OSNEWS.

Edited 2012-10-17 20:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Citation needed*

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-037-OP

(note the no OS option, and you save £91) ... Check your facts please.


Truth be told, no Average Joe is aware of Overclockers. And atleast here in Finland even I can't come up with a single vendor providing systems without Windows pre-installed unless you go for Apple, and then you get OSX instead.

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I appreciate your point and it was a somewhat trite example.

I was replying to the notion that these things don't exist ... and if you really cared that much you would maybe do a bit of research before claiming the opposite was true. I literally googled that off the top of my head ... there was no big effort to find the no OS option. I appreciate it maybe different in different countries.

My argument is that people who wish to control the platform they use as much as people on here do, They are a niche and we should expect to be treated as a niche market by the larger players.

You don't have fixed gear bicycle riders complaining about their Japanese NJS components (very fashionable) are expensive ... because they understand that they aren't what the mass market is geared towards.

Edited 2012-10-17 21:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

atleast here in Finland even I can't come up with a single vendor providing systems without Windows pre-installed unless you go for Apple, and then you get OSX instead.

Well, I go to ceneo.pl (possibly the most popular and well-known here catalogue of products and online shops), to "laptops" category (noting that a laptop without an OS is the most popular one), pick "no OS" and "Linux" options, and...
http://www.ceneo.pl/Laptopy;017P8-250094-250095.htm
...get over 400 products. Similar for netbooks or desktops (just picked the example of laptops since they're most popular now, and typically the subject of local conspiracy theories from ~Linux-faithful - before the see the above search on ceneo)

Now, you're seriously telling us that Finland didn't come up with such web service? That it lags in anything-high-tech behind... Poland?

Reply Parent Score: 2

skpg Member since:
2012-09-21

You don't understand Microsoft's monopoly. You don't understand the scam they sell to the public with the help of their oem partners. The pre-build desktops that you see in retail stores (HP, Toshiba, etc) are practically crippleware because the hardware only responds to Windows, what's worse is some cases it only responds to that licensed version of Windows. Meaning that if you reformat your HP/Dell/Sony desktop it will be already be crippled. Please don't tell me that consumers are getting a bargain buying some desktop at walmart, because you and I know that is corrupt business practices. That's just MS and their oem partners getting a quick buck and that is the truth.

Microsoft is a monopoly not because of their market-share or through the oem deals. Microsoft is a monopoly because of the copyright laws in software.

The copyright laws in software prevents any modification and redistribution of Windows. For example mac os x is made up of parts of bsd. Let's say a linux vendor decides to mix the nt kernel with linux, they would be in violation of a copyright law. If I were to fork windows and make it open source I would go to jail. In the foss world you see forks all the time of linux and bsd. Why can't a software vendor fork windows or use parts of windows, especially since it's practically used everywhere?

So it is the copyright and patent laws that allow microsoft to standardize the desktop market in their favor. Because they have the market-share that attracts developers and hardware manufacturers (this is known as the network effect) the consumers only have one choice if they want to get video game compatibility or if they want to get a certain hardware working, because the other operating systems don't have that support. This is called vendor-lock in because consumers have to use windows in order to get something done.

If the copyright laws did not exist in software, or if it was legal to modify and redistribute windows, this **** wouldn't happen. But copyright and patent laws do exist. I mean it is a crime to copy "the look and feel" of apple products. We all know that apple's litigation history is infamous. Can you imagine what would happen if some competitor use parts parts of the windows source code?


You can believe all you want that there is actually a choice in the operating systems we choose. There is no choice especially for the average consumers, it's only Windows.

Edited 2012-10-18 00:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

You don't understand Microsoft's monopoly. You don't understand the scam they sell to the public with the help of their oem partners. The pre-build desktops that you see in retail stores (HP, Toshiba, etc) are practically crippleware because the hardware only responds to Windows,


That is the hardware vendor fault not Windows, My dell Laptop works fine with every OS I can throw at it ... this isn't Microsoft's fault it is the hardware vendor.

what's worse is some cases it only responds to that licensed version of Windows. Meaning that if you reformat your HP/Dell/Sony desktop it will be already be crippled.


Absolute fucking rubbish.

Microsoft is a monopoly not because of their market-share or through the oem deals. Microsoft is a monopoly because of the copyright laws in software.


The same copyright laws that protect open source software. If there wasn't any copyright law, Oracle or IBM would be selling their own proprietary version of linux.

The copyright laws in software prevents any modification and redistribution of Windows. For example mac os x is made up of parts of bsd. Let's say a linux vendor decides to mix the nt kernel with linux, they would be in violation of a copyright law. If I were to fork windows and make it open source I would go to jail. In the foss world you see forks all the time of linux and bsd. Why can't a software vendor fork windows or use parts of windows, especially since it's practically used everywhere?


Because Microsoft like Apple have released it with a particular software license that forbids you from forking it. As the maker of their software it is their right to release it under any license they choose to.

So it is the copyright and patent laws that allow microsoft to standardize the desktop market in their favor. Because they have the market-share that attracts developers and hardware manufacturers (this is known as the network effect) the consumers only have one choice if they want to get video game compatibility or if they want to get a certain hardware working, because the other operating systems don't have that support. This is called vendor-lock in because consumers have to use windows in order to get something done.


Android and iOS also have this effect. This is how markets work. It is ridiculous to argue that this is some how wrong.

If the copyright laws did not exist in software, or if it was legal to modify and redistribute windows, this **** wouldn't happen. But copyright and patent laws do exist. I mean it is a crime to copy "the look and feel" of apple products. We all know that apple's litigation history is infamous. Can you imagine what would happen if some competitor use parts parts of the windows source code?


If copyright law didn't exist there would be no open source software either and there would be no choice.

Reply Parent Score: 3