Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Oct 2012 10:56 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Things ain't going well for Nokia. Their quarterly results are - again - a disaster, and Lumia sales have dropped 28% (50% if you look at just the US). Windows Phone 8 is really going to be a make-it-or-break-it kind of thing. If it doesn't go well, the company might consider going back to focussing on rubber boots.
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RE[4]: Comment by Loreia
by Nelson on Fri 19th Oct 2012 06:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Loreia"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Its far easier, and even possible at all, to be different with Android then with WP8. With WP8 you are even doomed at the hardware-level to follow Microsofts ruleset. Let alone the WP software where you not even have access to the code.


I think with the Lumia range, especially this time around, Nokia has differentiated. There is wireless charging, a "PureMotion" display with a higher refresh rate and super sensitivity (You can use the screen with gloves on)

There's plenty of space in the Camera space to innovate. Look what Nokia has done with Optical Image Stabilization in the 920.

Nokia has plenty of value add in their hardware, without even touching on the fact that they have the best (in my opinion) mapping solution on the market with Nokia Maps.


The markets where they are still strong are those where Lumia is not sold and where Symbian and S40 still rule the landscape. But since both are "burning" and since Nokia not cares at all about this markets (Meltimi canceled, Elops Nokia turn around from a global company to a one focused on north america, the Lumia only and everything else burned no-plan-B strategy)


They just sold 6.5 million Asha Touch phones in a Quarter. That's some serious growth. It flies in the face of "Focused on North America".

I think Nokia can walk and chew gum at the same time. Do you think it is a bad idea to reenter the North American market? They did make some headway there. I think with WP8 (and being on Verizon, TMobile, ATT, and some smaller MVNOs) they will see modest sales.


they are doomed to lose that too over time. Android, Bada and the likes are taking over low end too.


Uh..Bada sales have collapsed. Last I heard Samsung was doing something with Bada and Tizen. I mean, come the fuck on, I don't really expect much from the company that writes TouchWiz. They simply suck at software.


When that happened and S40 is phased out like the remaing Symbian and N9 sells then Nokia is down to a


There is no indication of S40 being phased out. In fact, with Asha, they've doubled down on S40 and improved it in a big way. Asha phones even feature the Swipe UI that people liked from MeeGo.

Again, they sold 6.5 million of them in a Quarter. I think in a years time the Asha lineup will play a significant part in Nokia.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Loreia
by cdude on Fri 19th Oct 2012 10:36 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Loreia"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

There is wireless charging


And yet you need to plug in a wire in your WP8 Lumia to charge it. What a joke.

Competition offers that too since long time. Innovation looks different.

a "PureMotion" display with a higher refresh rate and super sensitivity (You can use the screen with gloves on)


Nice for those who are required to have gloves on all times...

There's plenty of space in the Camera space to innovate. Look what Nokia has done with Optical Image Stabilization in the 920.


And yet the Pureview 808 had that in much better quality long ago. That they where not able to bring that to Lumia (and even had to fake there Lumia 920 camera photos) tells you where innovation is not possible cause of limitations Nokia cannot solve cause they do not have access to the code (same reason why WP7 Lumia can not be upgraded to WP8).

the best (in my opinion) mapping solution on the market with Nokia Maps.


They have not any longer. It was given to Microsoft and all WP8 resellers, like HTC and Samsung, will offer it too.

Do you think it is a bad idea to reenter the North American market?


I think its a bad idea to do focus foremost on north america and ignore much more important markets like China (technical WP7 Lumia limitations that where not solved all this years to also sell in China... but spend all your focus on 600ksold units in US? WTF?)

being on Verizon, TMobile, ATT, and some smaller MVNOs) they will see modest sales.


Same like with WP7 Lumia. What exactly are the reason(s) you see why the WP8 Lumia story will be totally different to the WP7 Lumia failure?

There is no indication of S40 being phased out.


S40 is rapidly aging and there is close to zero investment to stay competative. With Android, Bada/Tizen, etc going low end while Nokia struggles to keep alive and burns more resources in Lumia what do you think will happen in 2013 and beyond? Do you really believe S40 can compete where WP7 failed? So you think S40 is better then WP?

Edited 2012-10-19 10:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Loreia
by Nelson on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:11 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Loreia"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29



And yet you need to plug in a wire in your WP8 Lumia to charge it. What a joke.

Competition offers that too since long time. Innovation looks different.


Uh, no. The charging station is plugged in, of course, but the phone has no wires going into it.

Of course the bigger picture is public places. Nokia is working to expand the footprint of wireless charging stations in public places.

Also their own accessories support inductive charging. For example, if you set your Lumia down on their new Play 360 speakers, the phone automatically starts charging AND thanks to NFC+Bluetooth automatically starts playing whatever song you're currently playing through your speakers.


Nice for those who are required to have gloves on all times...


Or for when it's cold out, or for those who'd like pen input without expensive capacitive pens. Seriously, just because you can't conceivably find use in it, doesn't mean its not a differentiator which is what I was pointing out.


And yet the Pureview 808 had that in much better quality long ago. That they where not able to bring that to Lumia (and even had to fake there Lumia 920 camera photos)


Simulating results is industry practice in COMMERCIALS. It was a damn commercial. I went to a Nokia event in NYC, I had the camera demonstrated to me first hand. Its the real deal.

On the 808, they're good in different situations. The 808 excels in lossless zoom and oversampling to produce the "perfect pixel" but the Lumia 920 excels in video recording and low light conditions. The low light performance of the Lumia 920 is astounding.

tells you where innovation is not possible cause of limitations Nokia cannot solve cause they do not have access to the code (same reason why WP7 Lumia can not be upgraded to WP8).


Nokia has access to the code, and in fact, if you took the time to look into it, so do other OEMs.

Beyond what standard OEMs are granted, Nokia has special privileges to modify Windows Phone in unique ways.


They have not any longer. It was given to Microsoft and all WP8 resellers, like HTC and Samsung, will offer it too.


It was licensed to Microsoft and other OEMs for an unspecified amount. However Nokia still retains Nokia Drive, Transit, and what's being called Maps+ in Windows Phone 8.

It wasn't a gift to Microsoft.


I think its a bad idea to do focus foremost on north america and ignore much more important markets like China (technical WP7 Lumia limitations that where not solved all this years to also sell in China... but spend all your focus on 600ksold units in US? WTF?)


They are not focusing foremost on North America. Wtf? They sold more Lumias outside of the US, and in fact showed pretty impressive growth in Europe.

The Lumia 920 is coming to the largest carrier in the WORLD in China. A carrier which doesn't even carry the iPhone.

To say Nokia is not focusing on China is absurd.

Nokia simply jumped on the WP7 train towards the end of WP7 development. Nodo had shipped and Mango was almost finished, with WP8 in early development. Nokia had a plenty more say in WP8 than in WP7 and it shows.

A lot of short comings were addressed.


Same like with WP7 Lumia. What exactly are the reason(s) you see why the WP8 Lumia story will be totally different to the WP7 Lumia failure?


VZW, ATT, and TMO see WP8 as being more competitive than WP7. From features, to hardware, to the selection of apps.

And WP7 Lumia's were not a failure. They showed QoQ growth for every quarter prior to this one.

Sure, they didn't sell as many as Apple or as Samsung, but it takes time to grow. Nokia has unquestionably GROWN Windows Phone and it has given Nokia a new lease on life.

If it were up to you, they'd still be dicking around with MeeGo and wouldn't be profitable. Let me say this again, as of now, Nokia has returned to profitability.


S40 is rapidly aging and there is close to zero investment to stay competative. With Android, Bada/Tizen, etc going low end while Nokia struggles to keep alive and burns more resources in Lumia what do you think will happen in 2013 and beyond


Bada has been rolled into Tizen and Tizen is VAPORWARE. Sorry, it doesn't exist. DOESN'T EXIST.

Nokia like I said has sold 6.5 MILLION Asha devices in one quarter. They had a stellar reception. They run Series 40, and (I've actually had hands on time with one at the Nokia Event) they are pretty awesome. Doesn't even feel like S40.

Again, this "Nokia burning cash on Lumia" isn't fucking true. They receive $250 million from Microsoft EVERY QUARTER to support Windows Phone.

Location is up, Nokia Siemens is up, Asha is up, and a new Lumia line up is about to be introduced. Yet, somehow to you, the sky is still falling.


Do you really believe S40 can compete where WP7 failed? So you think S40 is better then WP?


WP8 will run Nokia's high end.
S40 will run their low to mid end.
WP7.8 (possibly a Lumia 510 or something) will fill the small gap between S40 and low-high end.

They compliment each other.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Loreia
by pos3 on Sat 20th Oct 2012 05:20 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Loreia"
pos3 Member since:
2010-06-25

where are you getting the asha numbers? You can get a android mobile for asha prices here.
People still but nokia here because of it previous brand recognition but not much wp.
Nokiad android would have made them no.1 atleast here.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Loreia
by Nelson on Sat 20th Oct 2012 15:14 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Loreia"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

From Nokia's Q3 results

Reply Parent Score: 2