Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Oct 2012 18:15 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Ubuntu 12.10 has been released, sporting the rather... Interesting tagline 'Avoid the pain of Windows 8'. Two main features are that websites can now be treated as actual applications, integrating them into Unity. The divide between local and online content when searching has also been softened, which, they claim, makes it easier to find what you're looking for. On the server side, it includes the Folsom release of OpenStack, "Cinder, for block storage and Quantum, a virtual networking API. Ubuntu's Metal-as-a-Service bare-metal provisioning tool has been updated and now supports Calxeda hyperscale hardware based on ARM".
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RE[7]: ...
by lemur2 on Fri 19th Oct 2012 13:58 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: ..."
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"... none of which are available for Windows, as far as I know.

To get the equivalent power and functionality on a Windows box, one would have to spend more on software than one had spent on the hardware alone.


You're cherry-picking applications that are Linux-only, even when you perfectly well know that there are completely free alternatives also for Windows. There is no reason why you'd have to buy expensive commercial apps for these simply because you run Windows.
"

... unless you want to get anywhere near the capability that I have installed on my Linux desktop, for no cost.

I repeat, to get for Windows the equivalent power, functionality, and quality of desktop applications that I routinely install on my KDE4 desktop, avoiding trialware, adware, crapware, shovelware, shareware, bloat and all kinds of other dubious-ware that pervades the Windows world, one has to spend at least twice as much on a Windows desktop compared to a Linux desktop with the exact same hardware.

No joke. For real. I kid you not.

Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have) ... one simply can't get consumer Windows that comes anywhere close to the excellent KDE4 Linux desktop experience.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: ...
by Dave_K on Fri 19th Oct 2012 14:34 in reply to "RE[7]: ..."
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have)


Four reboots? Windows updates can be annoying, but I don't think I've ever seen that many...

The two worst upgrade experiences I've ever had were with Linux. In both cases I was dumped to the CLI after updating because something had broken X.

Most non-rolling distributions recommend a clean install when there's a new version, and there are often lots of problems if you don't. Reinstalling an OS completely is a more time consuming process than installing a service pack, even if that means rebooting a few times.

I have to laugh at the idea that Linux would save me time and effort. I probably spend 90% of my time using Windows, but easily 90% of the time I've had to spend solving problems has been down to Linux issues. To me the idea that Linux is as easy to use as Windows is a total fantasy.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: ...
by lemur2 on Sat 20th Oct 2012 04:48 in reply to "RE[8]: ..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have)


Four reboots? Windows updates can be annoying, but I don't think I've ever seen that many...

The two worst upgrade experiences I've ever had were with Linux. In both cases I was dumped to the CLI after updating because something had broken X.

Most non-rolling distributions recommend a clean install when there's a new version, and there are often lots of problems if you don't. Reinstalling an OS completely is a more time consuming process than installing a service pack, even if that means rebooting a few times.

I have to laugh at the idea that Linux would save me time and effort. I probably spend 90% of my time using Windows, but easily 90% of the time I've had to spend solving problems has been down to Linux issues. To me the idea that Linux is as easy to use as Windows is a total fantasy.
"

As it happens, I have just gone through both experiences (a Windows update and a new Linux distribution) in the past fortnight.

My daughter is undertaking a course, and she needs to run some Windows apps in order to complete it. Her laptop was purchased back in 2004, and it was not up to the task. I happened to have a Windows 7 netbook that I wasn't using (hadn't used it for six months or so), so I dusted it off and brought it up to date. There were 79 updates, it took well over two hours and four reboots. Then I spent another hour searching the net for the applications she wanted, downloading and installing them.

Yesterday, I updated the machine on which I am typing this to Kubuntu 12.10. I keep the root "/" OS and /home on separate partitions, so I just booted from a live USB, reformatted "/" whilst leaving "/home" unchanged, and re-installed the OS. I then set that localisation to Australia, the system language to English(Australia), I set up the same users as before, and then fired up the package manager, and from there I selected and installed the dozen or so applications that I normally use which are not part of the default install. All of this took me just one reboot and about 20 minutes.

Here is a 48 second video of someone using the Kubuntu 12.04 package manager (muon) to install something (Chromium web browser):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VBZEdCfwT8

They were a bit slower than needs be. My modest laptop is faster than the machine in that video.

Questions?

Edited 2012-10-20 05:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: ...
by WereCatf on Fri 19th Oct 2012 14:56 in reply to "RE[7]: ..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

You're just trying to insinuate that F/OSS - applications that run only on Linux are better than ones that run also on Windows, which is actually rather insulting towards the whole F/OSS - movement. There's PLENTY of completely free, open-source software for Windows, too, but you just keep on jabbering that if one's running Windows one has to buy closed-source ones because the free ones aren't up to the snuff unless they run on Linux.

Do you even realize how much of a hypocrite that makes you? Your behaviour is exactly the kind of behaviour that's frowned upon everywhere and you don't even realize it yourself.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[9]: ...
by lemur2 on Sat 20th Oct 2012 04:27 in reply to "RE[8]: ..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You're just trying to insinuate that F/OSS - applications that run only on Linux are better than ones that run also on Windows, which is actually rather insulting towards the whole F/OSS - movement. There's PLENTY of completely free, open-source software for Windows, too, but you just keep on jabbering that if one's running Windows one has to buy closed-source ones because the free ones aren't up to the snuff unless they run on Linux.

Do you even realize how much of a hypocrite that makes you? Your behaviour is exactly the kind of behaviour that's frowned upon everywhere and you don't even realize it yourself.


Many, but by no means all, of the best-of-breed desktop software for Linux that I use happens to run on Linux only.

Here is one great best-of-FOSS application that happens to run on Windows also:
http://www.blender.org/
and to give an indication of quality, here is the latest example of its output:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlUcmOul8

There are plenty of examples of both types, some have Windows versions, some do not.

My point stands ... I can still get a great set of best-of-breed Linux desktop applications, and a machine to run them on, for half the cost and one tenth of the trouble and my time consumed, than I can get a similar set of the same quality and capability, and run with the same security on Windows running on the exact same hardware.

OK, so I won't count LibreOffice, blender, GIMP, VLC or whatever other good FOSS software that you want that you can also get on Windows, but in my accounting I will count: Digikam+Krita vs Photoshop, Cantor+Octave vs MATLAB, I will count nothing vs McAfee, I will count Calligra Flow and Kexi vs Visio and MS Access, and so on.

You of course do not have to believe me, but your lack of belief has no impact whatsoever on my bank balance. Regardless of what you might like to tell yourself, I will still end up paying far less than you for my best-of-breed desktop experience, and saving myself a huge amount of my time in its update, maintenance and upgrade.

Edited 2012-10-20 04:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: ...
by ilovebeer on Fri 19th Oct 2012 19:39 in reply to "RE[7]: ..."
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

I repeat, to get for Windows the equivalent power, functionality, and quality of desktop applications that I routinely install on my KDE4 desktop, avoiding trialware, adware, crapware, shovelware, shareware, bloat and all kinds of other dubious-ware that pervades the Windows world, one has to spend at least twice as much on a Windows desktop compared to a Linux desktop with the exact same hardware.

No joke. For real. I kid you not.

Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have) ... one simply can't get consumer Windows that comes anywhere close to the excellent KDE4 Linux desktop experience.

Pretty much everything quoted is absurd & completely backwards. It's blatantly obvious you're either incredibly ill-informed or just trying to push buttons because nothing you've said has any merit or credibility what-so-ever.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: ...
by lemur2 on Sat 20th Oct 2012 04:11 in reply to "RE[8]: ..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"I repeat, to get for Windows the equivalent power, functionality, and quality of desktop applications that I routinely install on my KDE4 desktop, avoiding trialware, adware, crapware, shovelware, shareware, bloat and all kinds of other dubious-ware that pervades the Windows world, one has to spend at least twice as much on a Windows desktop compared to a Linux desktop with the exact same hardware.

No joke. For real. I kid you not.

Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have) ... one simply can't get consumer Windows that comes anywhere close to the excellent KDE4 Linux desktop experience.

Pretty much everything quoted is absurd & completely backwards. It's blatantly obvious you're either incredibly ill-informed or just trying to push buttons because nothing you've said has any merit or credibility what-so-ever.
"

Your post reads like this: "Liar liar, pants on fire. What you said is wrong, and what I say is right."

Could you have possibly put forward a lamer, more inane, unsupported and unsubstantiated response if you possibly tried?

Reply Parent Score: 2