Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Oct 2012 18:15 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Ubuntu 12.10 has been released, sporting the rather... Interesting tagline 'Avoid the pain of Windows 8'. Two main features are that websites can now be treated as actual applications, integrating them into Unity. The divide between local and online content when searching has also been softened, which, they claim, makes it easier to find what you're looking for. On the server side, it includes the Folsom release of OpenStack, "Cinder, for block storage and Quantum, a virtual networking API. Ubuntu's Metal-as-a-Service bare-metal provisioning tool has been updated and now supports Calxeda hyperscale hardware based on ARM".
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RE[9]: ...
by lemur2 on Sat 20th Oct 2012 04:48 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: ..."
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"Then of course when it comes to your time and effort (have you ever waited through over an hour, and no less than four reboots, for Windows to get through an update? I have)


Four reboots? Windows updates can be annoying, but I don't think I've ever seen that many...

The two worst upgrade experiences I've ever had were with Linux. In both cases I was dumped to the CLI after updating because something had broken X.

Most non-rolling distributions recommend a clean install when there's a new version, and there are often lots of problems if you don't. Reinstalling an OS completely is a more time consuming process than installing a service pack, even if that means rebooting a few times.

I have to laugh at the idea that Linux would save me time and effort. I probably spend 90% of my time using Windows, but easily 90% of the time I've had to spend solving problems has been down to Linux issues. To me the idea that Linux is as easy to use as Windows is a total fantasy.
"

As it happens, I have just gone through both experiences (a Windows update and a new Linux distribution) in the past fortnight.

My daughter is undertaking a course, and she needs to run some Windows apps in order to complete it. Her laptop was purchased back in 2004, and it was not up to the task. I happened to have a Windows 7 netbook that I wasn't using (hadn't used it for six months or so), so I dusted it off and brought it up to date. There were 79 updates, it took well over two hours and four reboots. Then I spent another hour searching the net for the applications she wanted, downloading and installing them.

Yesterday, I updated the machine on which I am typing this to Kubuntu 12.10. I keep the root "/" OS and /home on separate partitions, so I just booted from a live USB, reformatted "/" whilst leaving "/home" unchanged, and re-installed the OS. I then set that localisation to Australia, the system language to English(Australia), I set up the same users as before, and then fired up the package manager, and from there I selected and installed the dozen or so applications that I normally use which are not part of the default install. All of this took me just one reboot and about 20 minutes.

Here is a 48 second video of someone using the Kubuntu 12.04 package manager (muon) to install something (Chromium web browser):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VBZEdCfwT8

They were a bit slower than needs be. My modest laptop is faster than the machine in that video.

Questions?

Edited 2012-10-20 05:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[10]: ...
by Dave_K on Sat 20th Oct 2012 21:24 in reply to "RE[9]: ..."
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

All of this took me just one reboot and about 20 minutes.


That's assuming that everything goes well and works properly after the upgrade, something I've rarely experienced with Linux.

It also slows things down when some needed software isn't available through the repositories, and has to be downloaded from elsewhere, or compiled from source. And of course I'd have to make sure I remembered to back up the various config files I'd had to edit to get things working when I installed the previous version. I wouldn't want to have to spend another weekend digging through howtos and Linux forums to remind myself how I fixed all the problems the last time.

Here is a 48 second video of someone using the Kubuntu 12.04 package manager (muon)


Package management is nice if all needed software is in the distribution's repositories. It becomes a bit more hassle when you have to search for a 3rd party repository with a particular package.

The real problem is when the software simply isn't available for the distribution you're using. Then you have a choice between trying packages from a slightly different distribution (e.g. Fedora RPMs in Scientific Linux) and hoping for the best, or compiling software from source. Of course that often brings with it the dependency hell that plagued Linux before modern package management.

After an hour or two spent failing to install a nice graphical utility (one that would have saved me from more time spent messing around with config file editing), extra seconds downloading an installer in Windows doesn't seem like a big deal.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[11]: ...
by lemur2 on Sun 21st Oct 2012 07:02 in reply to "RE[10]: ..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"All of this took me just one reboot and about 20 minutes.


That's assuming that everything goes well and works properly after the upgrade, something I've rarely experienced with Linux.
"

Why won't you Windows weenies just quit it with this type of misinformation? It get really tiring, it really does.

I repeat ... I bought a laptop for which the supplier offerred Linux pre-installed (instead of Windows) as an option. Specifically Ubuntu. I wanted Kubuntu, but the difference in desktop has no impact in terms of hardware compatibility, so this laptop is therefore one which works with Linux. The supplier certifies it.

So I bought it with Ubuntu Linux pre-installed. It was running Linux when I turned it on for the first time. It works with flawlessly with Linux ... got it?

Sheesh!

These are the same conditions under which people normally deal with Windows, BTW. It comes pre-installed on a machine which is known to work with it.

Anyway, I wanted to update to Kubuntu 12.10. I obtained an .iso file, and used Unetbootin to make a live USB from that file. I then re-booted the machine from the USB.

At this point, the machine is now running Kubuntu 12.10 from the USB. The hard disk has not been changed at all as yet, but the proposed new OS is nevertheless running on the hardware. I poke around for a bit and make sure that all hardware still works with the new version of OS, as it is expected to do so. Everything is fine, so I go ahead and commit to installing the new version of the OS on the hard disk.

There is effectively zero chance that anything will go wrong form this point. The machine ran Linux from the get-go, and the new version of the OS has already been tested on my hardware before I committed to installing it on the machine's hard disk.

Sheesh!

It also slows things down when some needed software isn't available through the repositories, and has to be downloaded from elsewhere, or compiled from source.


Muon reports there are 62,964 packages available, and just 1,795 of those are installed on my 64-bit Kubuntu 12.10 machine.

http://imgur.com/HicZt

For my purposes, I have a full desktop suite installed as it is, but if I found that I did need some other desktop program that was out there available for Linux, what do you suppose are the chances that it is NOT one of those covered by 60,000+ packages I currently don't have installed?

You Windows weenies are living in fantasy-land. No-one has to compile desktop software for Linux these days. Just get a Linux distribution which is meant for the desktop (such as Ubuntu, Netrunner or Mint or even Mageia), and you will find every possible bit of decent desktop software for Linux you could ever want is covered by the repositories.

OK? Can we finally put this myth about needing to compile desktop software for Linux to bed?

Sheesh!

And of course I'd have to make sure I remembered to back up the various config files I'd had to edit to get things working when I installed the previous version. I wouldn't want to have to spend another weekend digging through howtos and Linux forums to remind myself how I fixed all the problems the last time.


What part exactly of "tested via live USB, freshly installed the OS, set up the users and the locale and the system Language, and installed a dozen applications not installed by default, in 20 minutes" did you fail to understand?

"Here is a 48 second video of someone using the Kubuntu 12.04 package manager (muon)


Package management is nice if all needed software is in the distribution's repositories. It becomes a bit more hassle when you have to search for a 3rd party repository with a particular package.
"

I added the Ubuntu partner repositories, the backports repository, medibuntu, firefox-kde and getdeb repositories for Ubuntu as a part of the install. This is how I get 62,964 packages available. Doing this involves the arduous task of copying and pasting a few strings such as "ppa:blue-shell/firefox-kde" into muon. Doing this is well documented for new installation "things to do" on Ubuntu forums, and it is well within the time budget of 20 minutes.

The real problem is when the software simply isn't available for the distribution you're using. Then you have a choice between trying packages from a slightly different distribution (e.g. Fedora RPMs in Scientific Linux) and hoping for the best, or compiling software from source. Of course that often brings with it the dependency hell that plagued Linux before modern package management.


Use a popular distribution meant for use on the desktop, it will have a huge set of packages available in repositories. Faux "problem" solved.

After an hour or two spent failing to install a nice graphical utility (one that would have saved me from more time spent messing around with config file editing), extra seconds downloading an installer in Windows doesn't seem like a big deal.


FUD. I am running the Kubuntu 12.10 OS right now, as I type this, without having had to edit even one config file. All customisation (what very little has been required) has been done through the "System Settings" GUI.

http://www.kubuntu.org/docs/kquickguide/C/ch03s07.html

Please desist with outright lies and FUD.

Edited 2012-10-21 07:17 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2