Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd Oct 2012 19:12 UTC
Apple It's one of those days again: Apple held a product announcement today, announcing several new products. The most important of which was rumoured about for a long time now: a smaller iPad. It's called the iPad mini, and has the potential to become the best-selling iPad - and thus, the best selling tablet.
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RE[2]: unknowns
by ezraz on Thu 25th Oct 2012 13:50 UTC in reply to "RE: unknowns"
ezraz
Member since:
2012-06-20

"android tablets have been a disaster for education (for a variety of reasons) and the existing iPads are a bit too large/heavy/valuable/breakable to be ideal investments for every 3rd grader in the district to drag around every day.


Source for that statement?

As strapped as schools are for cash, Apple would have to undercut the prices of the Nexus 7 to make them even an option worth discussing.

As a parent of a child in high-school, I have asked him if he would rather read his books on a tablet computer or for me to just keep buying the books - he'd rather read the actual paper books.

In addition, a 3rd grader would have to not be held liable for any damage caused to a tablet - they tend to drop and break stuff.

The money for schools would better be spent on teacher salaries.
"

Source -- I work in the K-12 software market, and have been on the front lines for the tablet takeover. We have extensive district contacts. The iPad 1 & 2 are useful and reliable, but a little large, heavy, and expensive per unit for the kids. I don't know of any district that bought iPad3's because they were waiting for a mini or windows tablet to be useable.

Of course the kids don't pay when it breaks, the district does, which is why the plastic android tablets are generally avoided. Kids can break large numbers of those things in weeks, not years. Security issues are also a major problem on large rollouts of android tablets, partly from user ignorance as 3rd graders aren't linux/android hackers and K-12 IT is very understaffed, so they need a device that can mostly manage itself.

There's also familiarity. Almost every one of these kids has or has played with an iPad. Kids often learn it faster than adults because of Apple's stellar work on human to machine interfaces. I know my boy was 4 and could run the iPad as good or better than his mother (at first). It's just natural to them, not magical.

The money might be better spent on teacher's salaries, but that's for the school board and voters to work out. Bottom line is they have a tech budget, and they need to get useable tech to all kids in the district, and it has to incorporate their curriculum and be reliable. tablets beat laptops in this regard, so many districts have rolled out tablets or will be shortly.

Most in the US education market believe we are very close to moving nearly the entire printed curriculum to a tablet format, and issuing tablets to students will be equivalent to issuing them an ID.

As far as your kid wanting real books -- good! I love real books, no one wants to kill those. But he shouldn't be required to carry 40lbs of books around with him all day, especially if those printed books are years out of date.

Districts are more interested in durability and long term usability far more than initial hardware price. Part of the reason old Apples are still all over schools is because of this durability.

This nexus tab for $100 less will more than likely be abandoned on the software front within 2 years, whereas most districts will get 5+ school years out of their iPad investment.

Finally, hardware is only part of it -- as textbooks become software, the book purchase agreements move to software licenses, and schools are looking to save some money there too. 500 3rd grade science books cost alot to purchase, ship, and store, and they come with NO updates. If the eBook makers cut a better deal (and they should) that's an offer schools can't afford to pass up.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: unknowns
by OMRebel on Thu 25th Oct 2012 16:03 in reply to "RE[2]: unknowns"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

@ezraz

I would venture to guess that the software company you work for writes applications targeted specifically for iOS. Is that an accurate assumption?

There are some things I would like to point out. As it stands today, Apple has a horrible history when it comes to deal with eBook publishers (see the lawsuit against Apple by the Justice Department). One thing that we have seen when it comes to Apple is that they will always charge an over the top premium to ensure their profits are maximized. That's not a bad thing for their stock holders - but for budget strapped schools, it's not a good thing.

Now, there are some false statements that you have made in your post that I would like to discuss further with you.

1. Durability - when we are talking about school children, we are talking about them dropping stuff. If you do a simple search you'll see where iPads generally lose the majority of "drop tests" that are performed. The whole "Android is just cheap plastic" is part of a marketing strategy to try to make it sound as if iOS devices are better. They clearly are not.

2. Familiarity - since Android has such an overwhelming market lead over iOS, the majority of people out there are more familiar with Android. Studies and market trends show that Android tablets will surpass Apple's tablets in the near future.

3. Digital books still come with a premium price. It doesn't help to lower the cost when Apple is involved, as they will ensure they get a large cut of money on the books as well. That is a recipe for disaster based on Apple's history.

4. To say that Tablet X will be supported for 5+ years for Tablet Y will be phased out in 2 years is really silly to state. Based on the movement of the market, and what history has shown us, that simply isn't true.

Now, I am not sure what software your company writes. My guess if we are talking about eBooks, then it's simply an eBook reader - just an app. In which manner, your company would be better offer targeting both platforms (Android and iOS) if you want to ensure that you aren't left out with only being able to support a minority of users if market trends continue in the direction they are heading.

Just my 2 cents......

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: unknowns
by ezraz on Thu 25th Oct 2012 19:49 in reply to "RE[3]: unknowns"
ezraz Member since:
2012-06-20

@ezraz

I would venture to guess that the software company you work for writes applications targeted specifically for iOS. Is that an accurate assumption?


nope. but we've seen rapid adoption of iOS in the last 2 years, from both administration and students.

There are some things I would like to point out. As it stands today, Apple has a horrible history when it comes to deal with eBook publishers (see the lawsuit against Apple by the Justice Department). One thing that we have seen when it comes to Apple is that they will always charge an over the top premium to ensure their profits are maximized. That's not a bad thing for their stock holders - but for budget strapped schools, it's not a good thing.

Now, there are some false statements that you have made in your post that I would like to discuss further with you.


your authoritarian language has me intrigued. but apple does not charge "over the top premium". this has no concept of value. factor in reliability and something called "Total Cost of Ownership" and you might see apple in a different light.

1. Durability - when we are talking about school children, we are talking about them dropping stuff. If you do a simple search you'll see where iPads generally lose the majority of "drop tests" that are performed. The whole "Android is just cheap plastic" is part of a marketing strategy to try to make it sound as if iOS devices are better. They clearly are not.


clearly? nope. dropping only? also nope. how about book bag flexing, sliding, stacking? you are so quick to dismiss so much, sorry. show me one budget minded android product built better overall than an iDevice. how about consistency of yield? failure/return rates? android tablets are crapola in this regard.

2. Familiarity - since Android has such an overwhelming market lead over iOS, the majority of people out there are more familiar with Android. Studies and market trends show that Android tablets will surpass Apple's tablets in the near future.


wow sorry internet person you lost me. overwhelming market share? gimme a break. apple had been owning mobile gadgetry for years before android even existed. every kid in america can run an ipod, and most have been running iOS devices since at least 2008-09. android is for geeks that read OS news and people who wanted an iphone but wanted it for free.

go to meetings and look around. in my town (one of the poorest in america) there are iphones and ipads everywhere, like over 50%. android does well on 'total phones shipped', but they aren't dominating in 'total phones used by real people all day long'.

3. Digital books still come with a premium price. It doesn't help to lower the cost when Apple is involved, as they will ensure they get a large cut of money on the books as well. That is a recipe for disaster based on Apple's history.


Apple pays more to the music artists stocked in the Apple store than any other digital store at that scale. They get their cut for bringing the efficiencies to market.

4. To say that Tablet X will be supported for 5+ years for Tablet Y will be phased out in 2 years is really silly to state. Based on the movement of the market, and what history has shown us, that simply isn't true.


This has been the case so far, with android tablets literally being abandoned in the same year they are purchased, and on the flip side waiting months for a software update. True, iPad1 isn't going to be solid in 2015, but iPad2 and iPad3 will both be readily used through 2015. Same lifespan as iPhones, which usually are hot for 1.5 years, middle of road for 2 years, then old and slow after about 3.5 years. but about half of them chug on after that, since they are built so well.

Now, I am not sure what software your company writes. My guess if we are talking about eBooks, then it's simply an eBook reader - just an app. In which manner, your company would be better offer targeting both platforms (Android and iOS) if you want to ensure that you aren't left out with only being able to support a minority of users if market trends continue in the direction they are heading.

Just my 2 cents......


thanks for the 2 cents, but we don't do ebooks. we do data mining and item analysis and we are watching android closely, and have been for years. but the districts just aren't willing to experiment with massive buys of this constantly shifting and shifty operating system. for them, apple is the safe buy, not the radical departure that some on this site believe.

rest assured all the wishful thinking in the world won't make android take over tablets. free phones? sure, apple doesn't want to do free phones. they don't make money off ads and personal data like google. so free phones are great for google.

schools want reliability, stability, low total cost of ownership, and as easy management as possible. if someone crams win8 onto a good tab for $200 that will be the real competition to the ipad, not android.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: unknowns
by henderson101 on Thu 25th Oct 2012 23:55 in reply to "RE[3]: unknowns"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

@ezraz

I would venture to guess that the software company you work for writes applications targeted specifically for iOS. Is that an accurate assumption?


I have first hand experience in how schools are purchasing hardware in the UK. They are moving towards Tablets at an alarming rate. This is a fact. We supply both "netbook" class and "tablet" class devices, and the netbooks are not selling. No one is asking for Android, mainly because there is too much market saturation and too much turnover of specific devices. The types of tablets schools want are iPad class. Android has few of these and they don't compare well to the iPad in build quality or reliability. A school wants to pick a specific model and then have 500 of those every year, they don't want to have to chop and change manufacturers and have small nuances in hardware between years. You buy an iPad and everything just works. That is the perception, and that is also the reality we are seeing.


There are some things I would like to point out. As it stands today, Apple has a horrible history when it comes to deal with eBook publishers (see the lawsuit against Apple by the Justice Department).


Not relevant. The schools often use specific apps to teach the kids, they use specific text that is distributed to the devices. The textbooks are "icing" not necessity. Especially with the younger kids.

One thing that we have seen when it comes to Apple is that they will always charge an over the top premium to ensure their profits are maximized. That's not a bad thing for their stock holders - but for budget strapped schools, it's not a good thing.


The prices the kids pay are nowhere near the retail price. Even when you factor in the length of time the parents pay over. Apple gives a very generous educational discount.


1. Durability - when we are talking about school children, we are talking about them dropping stuff. If you do a simple search you'll see where iPads generally lose the majority of "drop tests" that are performed. The whole "Android is just cheap plastic" is part of a marketing strategy to try to make it sound as if iOS devices are better. They clearly are not.


No, this is rubbish. I've seen an iphone 4s drop tested vs a Galaxy 3 and the Galaxy smashed to bits, whereas the iPhone 4 (glass backed) still functioned. The iPad is mainly aluminium. As long as the screen is protected it takes a *lot* more force than the average drop test to break an average model.Especially given the stature of most 9 year olds. All iPads should be in a case anyway, to mitigate damage. This would be the same for any Android device I'd give to a 9 year old.


2. Familiarity - since Android has such an overwhelming market lead over iOS, the majority of people out there are more familiar with Android. Studies and market trends show that Android tablets will surpass Apple's tablets in the near future.


These are kids. Kids pick up OS like a duck swims in water. My own kids (7, 9, 11) happily swap between XP, Windows 7, Mac OS X, iOS and Android. No one has ever sat down and explained the difference to them in depth, they just naturally adjust. You point is therefore pretty vacuous.

Remember, this isn't about "popular". The UK school system used Acorn for 20 years.. believe me, they were pretty unpopular outside of education.


3. Digital books still come with a premium price. It doesn't help to lower the cost when Apple is involved, as they will ensure they get a large cut of money on the books as well. That is a recipe for disaster based on Apple's history.


iBooks author is free. iBooks author makes free books that you are able to distribute to other people (but not for a fee.) iBooks app on the iPad will open epub, iBooks format and PDF. I'm failing to see where Apple is demanding or even forcing a specific model for distribution here. FUD is what I hear coming from you. How is Apple making money from book sales any different to Amazon or Google Play?


4. To say that Tablet X will be supported for 5+ years for Tablet Y will be phased out in 2 years is really silly to state. Based on the movement of the market, and what history has shown us, that simply isn't true.


To say that anything Google's Android currently runs on will still be supported by a consumer level upgrade in 5 years from purchase is very unlikely. The iPad is also shaky, but if Apple has a foothold in education, they do have the incentive.


Now, I am not sure what software your company writes. My guess if we are talking about eBooks, then it's simply an eBook reader - just an app. In which manner, your company would be better offer targeting both platforms (Android and iOS) if you want to ensure that you aren't left out with only being able to support a minority of users if market trends continue in the direction they are heading.


I believe his exact words were "educational software" so you made a giant quantum leap there. Your 2 cents seem to be worth about half a penny in real terms.

Reply Parent Score: 1