Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 29th Oct 2012 23:34 UTC
Games I'm not 100% sure this is actually word-for-word, but alas. "In a presentation at Ubuntu Developer Summit currently going on in Denmark, Drew Bliss from Valve said that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming. Windows 8 ships with its own app store and it is moving away from an open platform model." I feel like a broken record by now but here we go again: keep an eye on Valve, even if you're not into games. This is the company pushing NVIDIA and AMD to improve their Linux support, with enough clout and name to actually get stuff done. Valve doesn't mess around.
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WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

Of course he is - but just because he has an agenda doesn't make what he is saying wrong...


Indeed, and I never claimed that. I'm just saying that he has more on his heart than just end-users' happiness.

1. Microsoft has publicly and repeatedly proclaimed "the future is metro" to their developers every chance they get.

2. Metro apps can only be distributed legally through the Windows Store (enterprise deployment not withstanding).


And yet, neither of those stop Steam from working as it does already, which is exactly what I was saying: Steam works, and will continue to work, as-is just fine. The future is the future and yes, Microsoft is pushing for Metro, but right now it is NOT a requirement and therefore there is absolutely no functional difference between Steam on Windows 7 and Steam on Windows 8. In other words Windows 8 is no more or less viable than Windows 7. The next Windows-version will probably be, but it is misguided to say this one is.

3. Windows Store has many arbitrary limitations, the big one being no apps with a content rating above PEGI 16 are allowed. Note that it doesn't say they must be marked as adult, they are not allowed.


Incorrect: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/10/microsoft-to-allow-mature-gam... In other words Microsoft does allow PEGI-18 to enter the store, now. Also, as I said above, this limitation is only relevant if Steam were to become a Metro-app.

I like Windows 8, and I like Metro.


I don't.

Yes it is. You can only sideload using one of two methods


I stand corrected.

That may not be true if your favorite company releases a new version of your favorite game, and it doesn't run on Windows anymore... That is not a joke either - that is a very serious possibility.


A new version of a game that I already own? Why would that affect me? A sequel or a prequel would be a separate game, and if that didn't work on the OS I use I obviously wouldn't buy it.

Pretending everything is fine and "trusting" Microsoft is just going to get us another walled garden platform like iOS. If you are a gamer, and you are ok with that, you are seriously missing the forest through the trees...


You're misunderstanding everything I said. I am merely saying Windows 8 is not any worse or better for gaming than Windows 7 is and claiming otherwise is silly. The next Windows - version, whatever it will be, possibly will be worse, but then the complaints should be about the future direction.

It's like a company producing bricks and the company announcing plans to move to glass bricks: the planned direction is a silly one, but the bricks you have now fill your needs just as well as any former bricks. You can complain "I don't like your direction and therefore the bricks I have now -- even though they're just as good for what I do as any former ones -- are bad and I'm going to throw a tantrum over them instead of your planned direction," or you can just forgo trying to make the current ones look bad and concentrate on complaining about the plans themselves.

Reply Parent Score: 5

galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

And yet, neither of those stop Steam from working as it does already, which is exactly what I was saying: Steam works, and will continue to work, as-is just fine. The future is the future and yes, Microsoft is pushing for Metro, but right now it is NOT a requirement and therefore there is absolutely no functional difference between Steam on Windows 7 and Steam on Windows 8. In other words Windows 8 is no more or less viable than Windows 7. The next Windows-version will probably be, but it is misguided to say this one is.


Yes, you are right of course. But some promises from Microsoft concerning the status of win32 going forward would settle a lot of nerves.

Incorrect: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/10/microsoft-to-allow-mature-gam... In other words Microsoft does allow PEGI-18 to enter the store, now.


Didn't see that - good to know. Still, do you think they would have reversed course on this if no one complained about it? That is really all Im saying, the complaining from people is a good thing - even if it is from Valve.

You're misunderstanding everything I said. I am merely saying Windows 8 is not any worse or better for gaming than Windows 7 is and claiming otherwise is silly. The next Windows - version, whatever it will be, possibly will be worse, but then the complaints should be about the future direction.


It may not be worse for gamers (as in end users) but it is certainly worse for gaming (as in the economy around how they are made and distributed). Its worse because Microsoft has created doubt as to the future of the platform for them - whether intentionally or not. With Windows 7 there was no reason to believe the rug might be pulled out from under you as a developer, with Windows 8? I mean do you know Microsoft's plans for win32 in 5 years? It used to be fairly obvious, now not so much.

Edited 2012-10-30 04:00 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

ansidotsys Member since:
2008-08-15

Yes, I know Microsoft plan's for Win32 for the next five years and its not going anywhere. WinRT itself is built on top of Win32, as is the .NET Framework. Win32 is going no where. If there is one thing that Microsoft is consistent at, it is backwards compatibility on the x86 platform. But even on Windows RT, it is running Win32.

For at least the next ten years, Win32 is here to stay. Microsoft cannot get rid of Win32 even if they wanted to. The only way to get rid of it is for Windows 9 to break full compatibility of EVERYTHING out today, including Windows 8.

With the way WinRT is dependent on Win32, the staying power of Win32 is more obvious now than it has ever been.

Reply Parent Score: 4

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

The future is the future and yes, Microsoft is pushing for Metro, but right now it is NOT a requirement and therefore there is absolutely no functional difference between Steam on Windows 7 and Steam on Windows 8.


There is even a very hard requirement. Windows 8 RT is ONLY running Metro. It is correct that Windows 8 RT ships win32 but ONLY Microsoft can use that API and they do in IE10 and Office for RT but NOBODY else can use win32 on RT.

This are the whole ARM, Tablet, Phone product-lines. They and the appstore and API limitations did not exist on Windows 7 but they exist NOW on Windows 8.

Reply Parent Score: 4

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

There is even a very hard requirement. Windows 8 RT is ONLY running Metro. It is correct that Windows 8 RT ships win32 but ONLY Microsoft can use that API and they do in IE10 and Office for RT but NOBODY else can use win32 on RT.


You do realize that Windows RT only runs on ARM? As such it is entirely irrelevant in this context, Valve is not targeting ARM. I know RT does not support user-installable desktop apps, but I already said that in my comment.

This are the whole ARM, Tablet, Phone product-lines. They and the appstore and API limitations did not exist on Windows 7 but they exist NOW on Windows 8.


No, they don't. They exist on Windows RT, not Windows 8. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges, mate.

Reply Parent Score: 2

bouhko Member since:
2010-06-24

You're misunderstanding everything I said. I am merely saying Windows 8 is not any worse or better for gaming than Windows 7 is and claiming otherwise is silly. The next Windows - version, whatever it will be, possibly will be worse, but then the complaints should be about the future direction.

I think that's exactly Valve's agenda. They are afraid Windows 9 will be metro only and only allow windows store and they are trying to put pressure on Microsoft. The best way to put pressure on Microsoft is to prove them they can build a gaming platform on a competing operating system.

Even if Valve doesn't Valve to abandon Windows, it also make sense from a business perspective to not depend on a single vendor (Microsoft) for a critical requirement of your product (the OS on which it runs).

Reply Parent Score: 5

mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

I think that's about spot on. Even if down the line at around windows 9 time, the situation is Steam running on a 'less Metro-only' Windows 9 the majority of the time, alongside a really good smooth running Linux variant with some better graphics and audio drivers ; let alone the slightly less likely but not impossible situation of a Valve sponsored/produced 'Valve-OS' running atop a bespoke 'Steam PC'/console - that might be Valve's dream triumvirate outcome for Steam -- which would still be Windows in the top spot numbers wise, and could evolve from there. Who knows.

Reply Parent Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Not to mention the rotting elephant in the room Werecat which is so far the reviews of Win 8 are terrible, even worse than Vista, and we ALL know how well it went over right? Lets face it, getting a product to go over despite huge amounts of bad buzz is nearly impossible for a company with a GREAT PR dept, and MSFT's PR certainly ain't great.

Final verdict? Win 7 is supported until 2020, I have a feeling after a dead XMas season the OEMs will demand the right to sell Win 7 (just as they did with XP) and MSFT will cave, just as they did on Vista. They are pushing an appstore because it gives them a walled garden but they AIN'T Apple, they simply aren't a premier brand and never will be. This is like marking everything in Walmart up 300% and suddenly thinking that makes you Macy's...it don't.

Reply Parent Score: 2