Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 8th Nov 2012 20:54 UTC, submitted by Elv13
Gnome "Theme development is a tedious and difficult task, and for the GTK devs to be so careless in breaking their API at every turn disrespects the many hours people put into making themes for it. [...] I was given to believe that this breakage stems from a Microsoft-like climate of preventing users from customizing their systems, and deliberately breaking the work of others so that your 'brand' is the best. Anytime I hear the word 'brand' being used in Linux, I know something valuable is being poisoned." I find the tone of this one a bit too harsh and overly negative at times, but his point still stands.
Thread beginning with comment 541521
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Priorities?
by david_thomson on Thu 8th Nov 2012 22:57 UTC
david_thomson
Member since:
2012-07-29

Sorry but people who excessively tweak their computers should consider spending more time outside and less time playing with their computer... Gnome 3 is great because no tweaking is required. If you don't like it then use something else, don't try to gain attention from people by starting flame wars.

Reply Score: -3

RE: Priorities?
by Morgan on Thu 8th Nov 2012 23:15 in reply to "Priorities?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

There does seem to be a pretty extreme rift in the OS world. There are those who "just want to be productive" and for them Windows, OS X and (to a certain degree) Ubuntu meet that need. It seems the Gnome devs want to join that party too.

Then there are the folks on the other side who crave total control over their systems. Often you'll find them starting out with something like Slackware and KDE, then getting into Arch or Gentoo with a minimalist window manager, or in some extremes foregoing X altogether and doing everything in screen sessions and unplugging the mouse.

There are, of course, a few of us who stay in that tenuous middle ground, and I feel that's the worst place to be. It's always in flux; one day the kernel is broken because some guy upstream managed to squeeze into the release channel a performance patch that works for the tweakers but throws everyone else out of whack. Another day the devs of a very large and popular desktop environment project decide to throw out almost all the code and ideas, and start from scratch with something alien, just because they can.

The relative stability* of Windows, and to a lesser extent OS X, the BSDs and Solaris, makes for a pretty compelling platform for those who lean towards using their computer as a tool or appliance to get things done and/or make a living. For those of us who view the tech sphere as a hobby first and a career second, well sure we probably would benefit from some time outdoors.

Maybe I'll go for a walk while my tweaked kernel is compiling for the fourth time today... ;)


*Speaking purely of update release schedules

Edited 2012-11-08 23:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[2]: Priorities?
by ssokolow on Thu 8th Nov 2012 23:35 in reply to "RE: Priorities?"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

There are, of course, a few of us who stay in that tenuous middle ground, and I feel that's the worst place to be. It's always in flux; one day the kernel is broken because some guy upstream managed to squeeze into the release channel a performance patch that works for the tweakers but throws everyone else out of whack. Another day the devs of a very large and popular desktop environment project decide to throw out almost all the code and ideas, and start from scratch with something alien, just because they can.


That sounds about right. I was perfectly happy on KDE 3.5, where I could get work done when I wasn't geeking around for fun's sake but, now, it seems to be getting harder and harder to find something that's stable, performant, and doesn't try to force an alien workflow on me.

In fact, I think that's the real distinction. I come into a desktop knowing what I want and, if I can't get it, I'll dig in my heels and fight until I do before I'll consider alternatives, superior or otherwise.

I switched off Windows cold-turkey onto Mandrake Linux 10.0 and it still took me several months to feel safe on an OS where I hadn't been a power user since my age was measured in single digits but I was a KDE 3.5 user from the start because I knew exactly what I wanted and no desktop was going to tell me differently.

(And I was willing to put up with eye-searingly glossy/glassy icons if that's what it took to get that level of control. Remember, this was before the XDG Icon Naming Specification.)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Priorities?
by oskeladden on Fri 9th Nov 2012 01:03 in reply to "RE: Priorities?"
oskeladden Member since:
2009-08-05

There does seem to be a pretty extreme rift in the OS world. There are those who "just want to be productive" and for them Windows, OS X and (to a certain degree) Ubuntu meet that need.


If you're not going to upgrade the system, I suppose this is true, but once you factor in upgrades and updates (and you are going to need to upgrade at *some* stage), I'm not sure it holds. Ubuntu updates often break things so that you then have to spend hours making simple stuff work again, and OS X now seems to want you to adapt to new ways of working with each new release. I went back to Slackware on my main work machine mainly because I was tired of change and wanted stability. Slackware 13.37 was the first version I'd used since 9, and I could essentially pick up where I'd left off.

Often you'll find them starting out with something like Slackware and KDE, then getting into Arch or Gentoo with a minimalist window manager, or in some extremes foregoing X altogether and doing everything in screen sessions and unplugging the mouse.


Bang on right, though for many this is a matter of productivity rather than control. I do this more and more when I'm working, for example, largely because I'm sick of desktop environments that want to reshape my work habits or worm their way into my personal identity. I just want them to get out of my way and fade into the background so I can get on with work. A simple window manager like Window Maker or Openbox in contrast for the most part does just this. And yeah, I do work in X-less sessions - I started doing this as a reaction to where modern desktop environments seemed to be going, but I've found that if all I need to do is do a test-run of a model, or write a paper in LaTeX, a purely text-based session is wonderfully distraction-free.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Priorities?
by m0ns0on on Fri 9th Nov 2012 14:58 in reply to "RE: Priorities?"
m0ns0on Member since:
2012-11-09

The real problem is much larger than the predicament we're facing with arrogant developers. The younger generations are getting more and more totalitarian - they get easily offended and have less empathy. I dunno why it's like that. Perhaps in an overcrowded world with billions of egos, people have to fight harder to stay on top...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Priorities?
by quackalist on Fri 9th Nov 2012 22:38 in reply to "RE: Priorities?"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

...in some extremes foregoing X altogether and doing everything in screen sessions and unplugging the mouse.


Ekk, when Men were men, Mounties always got their man and coders er...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Priorities?
by ssokolow on Thu 8th Nov 2012 23:28 in reply to "Priorities?"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Sorry but people who excessively tweak their computers should consider spending more time outside and less time playing with their computer... Gnome 3 is great because no tweaking is required. If you don't like it then use something else, don't try to gain attention from people by starting flame wars.


I get the impression that you didn't fully comprehend the article linked.

The complaint is that GNOME has started treating GTK+ like an internal GNOME component rather than the foundation of 3rd-party desktops like Xfce and LXDE. SpaceFM is a fork of the legacy branch of PCManFM, the file manager for LXDE.

Let's pretend I do use GNOME for a moment. I don't know about you, but I like having more choice in themes than "too much padding: light" and "too much padding: dark".

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Priorities?
by david_thomson on Thu 8th Nov 2012 23:55 in reply to "RE: Priorities?"
david_thomson Member since:
2012-07-29

I must admit I didn't read the article I was put off by the headline & posted snippet. If that is true then I'm sure it could have been presented in a more mature way. What will *really* kill a community is disrespect & childishness, not API changes. If there is a valid complaint to be made then you don't need superlatives ("rotting", "every turn"), and you don't need to make heated comparisons (microsoft-like). When you add emotion to a discussion like this you lose all respect and therefore you lose your message. (I mean the original author here)

There are plenty of themes available anyway just because there isn't a really nice way to apply them yet doesn't mean that all the developers should be shot and burned seriously programming takes time & effort nothing happens overnight but it doesn't mean it will never happen.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Priorities?
by Lazarus on Fri 9th Nov 2012 02:03 in reply to "Priorities?"
Lazarus Member since:
2005-08-10

Gnome 3 is great because no tweaking is required.


Except for the need to remove and replace the abomination that is Gnome Shell... or the need to add a new file manager because Nautilus 3.6 has been completely gutted of functionality. :-P

Reply Parent Score: 10