Linked by Howard Fosdick on Thu 8th Nov 2012 20:12 UTC
Editorial In the United States, state and local authorities are in charge of voting and the country uses more than a half dozen different voting technologies. As a result, the country can't guarantee that it accurately counts national votes in a timely fashion. This article discusses the problem and potential solutions to the U.S. voting dilemma.
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RE: France
by ricegf on Sat 10th Nov 2012 01:21 UTC in reply to "France"
ricegf
Member since:
2007-04-25

on't tell me US never thought about such a simple process that cannot be faked and is not prone to doubt ?


It seems trivial to fake to me. I prepare 10 envelopes for my candidate in advance, and bring them in my pocket. Add the "real" envelope to the stack in the voting booth, square up, and drop the lot in the box on my way out. What am I missing?

Manually opening all those envelopes will really slow down counts.

And I had 37 offices on which to vote in my Texas county - are you seriously suggesting 37 lines?!? Ouch!

No, the optical scanner worked great.

One nice thing (in a warped sort of way) about living in Texas is that I can vote for the candidate I REALLY support for president, even a Green or Libertarian, since there was never any doubt which winner would take all the electoral votes.

I'd love to see us change to proportional electors, but the R's would have to sponsor the bill in the state legislature, and it would then cost them electors in 2016, so they have no motivation. *sigh*

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: France
by panzi on Sat 10th Nov 2012 02:17 in reply to "RE: France"
panzi Member since:
2006-01-22

So one person can manipulate 10 votes. Using computers one person writing a few lines of code can manipulate millions of votes that are statistically distributed in a way that the fraud is not detectable (if the fraud software is not found - because it rewrites itself after the election and removes the fraud algorithms).

Also you're being watched putting the envelope into the box, so the election officials will notice this. Multiple votes in one envelope are of course discarded. And there should be independent people/representatives of each candidate watching the whole process. If the box is empty at the beginning and the votes are counted correctly afterwards, there is no way to manipulate the election (unless you teleport envelopes into the box - but there is no such technology).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: France
by ricegf on Sat 10th Nov 2012 03:04 in reply to "RE[2]: France"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

You seem to be switching out the brilliant poll watchers (in the one envelope per vote per line case) with really careless poll watchers (in the case where a voter hacks into the voting machine to add a few million votes).

But even in the latter case, the fraud would be easy to detect, since each vote is represented by a physical scanned ballot that is (of course) kept by the machine, so one manual recount - or just comparing the number of ballots to number of votes in the machine - and the game is up.

Also, rewriting voting machine flash memory requires a physical jumper, which trojan software obviously can't install to hide its tracks.

And of course results of the one envelope per vote per line are almost certainly reported to the Secretary of State via electronic means, which is the logical place to insert a man-in-the-middle type attack to manipulate an election, regardless of the technology used by the voting booth.

Or just skip the voting booth altogether, as Lessadolla Sowers rather famously did.

The bottom line is that asking voters to wait in 37 lines, sorting through cards in each to find their candidate's to put in the envelope while being watched like a hawk by zealous poll watchers, is simply impractical in any urban area in the USA. And if they did, it's leaves just as many means (or more, actually) than an optical ballot scanner.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: France
by Kochise on Sat 10th Nov 2012 12:14 in reply to "RE: France"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

You cannot fake : the bow is transparent, one representative of every party is witnessing each vote, a registry is signed by all people who vote, you HAVE to find as many signatures than envelopes. A little city have one vote office open, bigger cities have more.

Then, yes, each enveloppe is counted, opened, and the count is made by hand under the scrutinize of the same representatives of each party. And since France is a pretty nice democratic country, fairness prevails.

Not trying to trick out parts of the population to favor one candidate against the other. France even try to allows right of vote to foreign people that works in France for a long time without being a French citizen.

Can the USA dare to do the same ?

Kochise

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: France
by zima on Thu 15th Nov 2012 21:57 in reply to "RE: France"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It seems trivial to fake to me. I prepare 10 envelopes for my candidate in advance, and bring them in my pocket. Add the "real" envelope to the stack in the voting booth, square up, and drop the lot in the box on my way out. What am I missing?

Polling places know very well how many voting cards they gave out... and if the number doesn't match in the "there's more of them than we gave out" direction, a fraud is very likely - at which point you can either take a closer look and discard fakes, or rerun it in that one area. This seems trivial to me.

Edited 2012-11-15 21:58 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2