Linked by Howard Fosdick on Sat 24th Nov 2012 17:52 UTC
Editorial Do you depend on your computer for your living? If so, I'm sure you've thought long and hard about which hardware and software to use. I'd like to explain why I use generic "white boxes" running open source software. These give me a platform I rely on for 100% availability. They also provide a low-cost solution with excellent security and privacy.
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RE[5]: Slashdot Circa 1999
by Alfman on Mon 26th Nov 2012 04:37 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Slashdot Circa 1999"
Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

ze_jerkface,

"LAMP software is more dependent on CENT/RHEL than it was 5 years ago."

I have to disagree, I personally haven't had a single problem working on lamp projects across multiple distros (PHP's own version specific breakages aside). Is there actually something specific that's been giving you trouble? If so, maybe we can help? If not, then what exactly is your evidence that LAMP is dependent upon RH/CENT?


"The LAMP world is not some hippie software exchange;"

If we take "P" to stand for PHP, it might be a bit hippie actually ;)

"it's filled with commercial companies and developers that have limited resources and can't afford to test in every distro."

So what? It doesn't contradict what's been said. Just because a LAMP package isn't supported on X doesn't mean it can't run on X. I've been routinely developing LAMP software on my ubuntu desktop and deploying it to various servers including CENT/Debian for years and not once has that caused a problem. There was once even a mac server.

I swear that I did not know this before today, but my own shared web hosting provider is running Debian. It's never even mattered enough for me to check before. It has little impact on what I do.


Of course, these distros have different approaches to administration and installing packages. But I'd hope that anyone who chooses to use distro X is familiar with how to manage X packages. If that's too much to ask, then you are really setting the bar low.



Edit:

"That doesn't fly in the business world. You don't stake your reputation on unsupported software."

Well, alot of independent developers (particularly web developers) have a job precisely because the open source code clients want to use is *unsupported* and they want *us* to support it. Not to overstate it, but I hope we can agree there's a bit of truth to this?

Edited 2012-11-26 04:46 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[6]: Slashdot Circa 1999
by ze_jerkface on Tue 27th Nov 2012 09:42 in reply to "RE[5]: Slashdot Circa 1999"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

I have to disagree, I personally haven't had a single problem working on lamp projects across multiple distros (PHP's own version specific breakages aside).


LOL just ignoring PHP breaks when PHP constitutes the vast majority of plug-ins, modules and third party LAMP software like webmail and DALs. So when working with LAMP projects one only needs to avoid anything written in PHP to avoid breaks? Wow, thanks Captain. Great, everyone go write your own frameworks and plugins from scratch. Try not to build major PHP and MySQL dependencies this time.



Is there actually something specific that's been giving you trouble? If so, maybe we can help? If not, then what exactly is your evidence that LAMP is dependent upon RH/CENT?


Going to go with the patronizing attitude, eh?

Linux fans really have a hard time with criticism and that is a major understatement.

I never said LAMP is dependent on CENT/Red Hat. I said that using anything but CENT/RHEL for LAMP increases your risk of conflict. Running software on an unsupported system increases your risk of conflict. CENT/RHEL is more likely to be supported than any other distro when it comes to third party LAMP software. Ergo....


Just because a LAMP package isn't supported on X doesn't mean it can't run on X.


How many times do I have to repeat myself? I have never denied that but this is what can happen:

You: Hi I think I found a bug in your software that is causing me problems.
Them: Which OS are you using?
You: Not one that is supported.
Them: Goodbye.

But I'd hope that anyone who chooses to use distro X is familiar with how to manage X packages. If that's too much to ask, then you are really setting the bar low.


It's more complicated than a package management problem. Most websites are on shared/managed systems and this is why there is so much third party LAMP software that is delivered directly from developers as plug-ins or modules and built against bleeding edge / common environments. Everyone is basically on a mindless treadmill.

Well, alot of independent developers (particularly web developers) have a job precisely because the open source code clients want to use is *unsupported* and they want *us* to support it. Not to overstate it, but I hope we can agree there's a bit of truth to this?


I agree that there are economic opportunities for unsupported custom solutions. But for LAMP those custom solutions are built on standard base.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Slashdot Circa 1999
by Alfman on Tue 27th Nov 2012 16:03 in reply to "RE[6]: Slashdot Circa 1999"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

ze_jerkface,

"LOL just ignoring PHP breaks when PHP constitutes the vast majority of plug-ins, modules and third party LAMP software like webmail and DALs. So when working with LAMP projects one only needs to avoid anything written in PHP to avoid breaks? Wow, thanks Captain. Great, everyone go write your own frameworks and plugins from scratch. Try not to build major PHP and MySQL dependencies this time."

You made a claim that LAMP is heavily dependent upon RH/Cent, that's all I'm refuting.


"Going to go with the patronizing attitude, eh?"

Not really, I was playing your bluff. If you haven't actually had any bad experiences, then the next statement becomes mostly hypothetical.

"I never said LAMP is dependent on CENT/Red Hat. I said that using anything but CENT/RHEL for LAMP increases your risk of conflict."

I just haven't seen it, and you probably have not either. As a professional web developer I would be able to provide support for this conflict on behalf of my clients should the need arise. If your policy is to insist on RH/Cent, that's your prerogative. I would too *if* supporting alternatives became difficult, but it simply hasn't.


"How many times do I have to repeat myself? I have never denied that but this is what can happen: You: Hi I think I found a bug in your software that is causing me problems. Them: Which OS are you using?"

Even CentOS itself is an *unsupported* clone of RH, yet it still gets plenty of use because it works. Same goes for debian or any other distro.

I was not able to find any OSS LAMP packages whose official support was limited to Oracle/RH/Cent, can you list a few? If not, will you admit that your argument is more hypothetical than actual?


"I agree that there are economic opportunities for unsupported custom solutions. But for LAMP those custom solutions are built on standard base."

Where have you seen LAMP defining RH/Cent as a standard base?


Look, I don't really want to haggle over this any more. Can we agree that it's ok to use whatever distro is desired as long as the web developers are ok with said configuration?

Edited 2012-11-27 16:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3