Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 15th Dec 2012 19:11 UTC
In the News "Peers and scientists including Professor Stephen Hawking are once again pushing for an official pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing. Turing's death from cyanide poisoning in 1954 was ruled a suicide, coming after his conviction for gross indecency at a time when homosexuality was illegal." The fact that he still hasn't been pardoned is an utter disgrace.
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No
by Carewolf on Sat 15th Dec 2012 22:43 UTC
Carewolf
Member since:
2005-09-08

The treatment Alan Turing received was a disgrace, but it was the unfortunate law at the time. A lot of people have been convicted of laws that have later been changed. The fact that they were wrongly convicted is recognized by the fact the laws have been changed.

Stop wasting time of symbolic gestures for celebreties. Lots of people have been hurt by bad laws, and dead celebrities does not need pointless gestures more than anyone else.

Reply Score: 13

RE: No
by WereCatf on Sat 15th Dec 2012 23:54 in reply to "No"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Stop wasting time of symbolic gestures for celebreties. Lots of people have been hurt by bad laws, and dead celebrities does not need pointless gestures more than anyone else.


This is what bothers me so much about these kinds of deals: Stephen Hawking and his ilk just want Alan Turing pardoned because he is famous, not for any other reason. I am somewhat disappointed in mr. Hawking as this just goes to display that even he believes being famous or rich makes one more important than the other people and the rich/famous should therefore be treated better than the rest -- I heartily disagree with such a view of the world. Either call for pardoning for all the people prosecuted under the homosexuality-is-illegal law or none.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: No
by kwan_e on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:38 in reply to "RE: No"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

Stephen Hawking and his ilk just want Alan Turing pardoned because he is famous, not for any other reason.


But what is Alan Turing famous for? He wasn't famous for being a Z-list celebrity who appeared on Celebrity Big Brother.

His work probably saved millions of lives.

People should stop using the word "famous" or "celebrity" as though Turing didn't deserve it.

We can all choose words which makes it looks like our arguments has more depth than it really has, so no, calling Turing "famous" or "celebrity" is not a legitimate argument.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: No
by Hypnos on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:38 in reply to "RE: No"
Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

You're right this is purely symbolic. No, that doesn't make it less worthwhile. This would highlight the fact that an injustice against gay people was done even though the victim in this case made an invaluable wartime contribution, and that the UK is acknowledging both the rights of gay people and Turing's work.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: No
by tylerdurden on Mon 17th Dec 2012 01:01 in reply to "RE: No"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Stephen Hawking and his ilk...


Nature is funny; it gave Stephen Hawking a working brain inside a non-working body, while it bestows upon others working bodies outside non-working brains.

Edited 2012-12-17 01:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: No
by JAlexoid on Mon 17th Dec 2012 01:26 in reply to "RE: No"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

I am somewhat disappointed in mr. Hawking as this just goes to display that even he believes being famous or rich makes one more important than the other people and the rich/famous should therefore be treated better than the rest -- I heartily disagree with such a view of the world.

No... This shows that people that have great deeds behind their names are worthy. And yes, people that save other people, people that do something highly admirable do actually deserve to be treated better than most of us. The deserved it by doing sh*t, not sitting and writing comments on the internet. Some of them might have actually created the internet.

Turing wasn't famous or rich, by the way.


You are mixing amnesty and pardon. A pardon is granted to a person guilty of a crime to clear his name in extraordinary cases. Amnesties are mass pardons. Passing an amnesty is hard. They want to just legally clear Turing's name, nothing else.

Edited 2012-12-17 01:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: No
by zima on Fri 21st Dec 2012 18:09 in reply to "RE: No"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I am somewhat disappointed in mr. Hawking as this just goes to display that even he believes being famous or rich makes one more important than the other people

IIRC (from the stories when he was looking for a new assistant), Hawking isn't that nice in person. :p

But then, with his accomplishments, he doesn't have to be.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: No
by MacTO on Sun 16th Dec 2012 00:47 in reply to "No"
MacTO Member since:
2006-09-21

Such a pardon is more than symbolic: it acknowledges that there were grave injustices at the time. It will not erase the past, but hopefully it will raise awareness of what can happen if we fail to resist homophobia in the future.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: No
by Soulbender on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:06 in reply to "RE: No"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

It would be more symbolic if EVERYONE that has suffered that injustice would be pardoned. If it's only Turing that's pardoned it basically says "yea, you know, it was bad and all but it's ok that all these other people who aren't Turing suffered".

Edited 2012-12-16 02:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4