Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 15th Dec 2012 19:11 UTC
In the News "Peers and scientists including Professor Stephen Hawking are once again pushing for an official pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing. Turing's death from cyanide poisoning in 1954 was ruled a suicide, coming after his conviction for gross indecency at a time when homosexuality was illegal." The fact that he still hasn't been pardoned is an utter disgrace.
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Symbolic gesture
by kwan_e on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:33 UTC
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

To all those who say this is stupid for various reasons, all of which are nonsensical:

If we can't even get a "celebrity" like Turing pardoned, then what hope is here to get official recognition that those other unfortunates were wronged?

Like it or not, homosexuals are still given limited rights today. To not pardon Turing is for the government (and its supporters of the policy) to say "okay, we made a mistake, but gays are still yucky and we still should keep them separate but not make it look like we want them dead."

Beware of people who can't even make a SYMBOLIC apology to be really apologetic for their past or future actions.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Symbolic gesture
by WereCatf on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:39 in reply to "Symbolic gesture"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

To all those who say this is stupid for various reasons, all of which are nonsensical:

If we can't even get a "celebrity" like Turing pardoned, then what hope is here to get official recognition that those other unfortunates were wronged?


Most likely nil, but that doesn't change the fact that this is just playing the "he's famous, let's give him special treatment" - card. Yes, he was a hero, but no more or less than the policemen, firefighters, soldiers, even loving fathers that were prosecuted under the law, and they do not deserve half-measures. Either seek for pardon for them all and fail at that, or don't seek pardon for any of them.

I will never accept riches or fame as a substitute for equality.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Symbolic gesture
by kwan_e on Sun 16th Dec 2012 02:46 in reply to "RE: Symbolic gesture"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

"To all those who say this is stupid for various reasons, all of which are nonsensical:

If we can't even get a "celebrity" like Turing pardoned, then what hope is here to get official recognition that those other unfortunates were wronged?


Most likely nil, but that doesn't change the fact that this is just playing the "he's famous, let's give him special treatment" - card. Yes, he was a hero, but no more or less than the policemen, firefighters, soldiers, even loving fathers that were prosecuted under the law, and they do not deserve half-measures. Either seek for pardon for them all and fail at that, or don't seek pardon for any of them.

I will never accept riches or fame as a substitute for equality.
"

You see it as "half measure". I see it as "the beginning".

Why are people treating this as though it's a limited resource? Pardons aren't some rare mineral that you have to destroy the environment to dig up. I don't recall seeing pardon blocks in Minecraft.

Outside of the tech sphere, most people still don't know what Alan Turing did for the war. If this were even more public, with a figurehead who deserved his celebrity, then maybe we can get large swathes of the public to call for pardons for the rest of those who suffered.

It disappoints me to think that people here don't have a strategic bone in their body. This "all or nothing" rhetoric is fine, but "all or nothing" strategies tend to do nothing for anyone.

* And yes, I think we can safely say that Alan Turing did more for the war than most other people, and that makes him a very suitable figurehead.

Edited 2012-12-16 02:48 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Symbolic gesture
by JAlexoid on Mon 17th Dec 2012 01:49 in reply to "RE: Symbolic gesture"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Yes, he was a hero, but no more or less than the policemen, firefighters, soldiers, even loving fathers that were prosecuted under the law, and they do not deserve half-measures.

Actually there are levels of heroism and contribution, hence the different levels of awards(knighthoods, orders, medals and such). Turing's is pretty f***g high on the contribution scale.


Either seek for pardon for them all and fail at that, or don't seek pardon for any of them.

LGBT groups are. And the same people support that initiative. They however asked a fast track for Turing... You know. To break the ice.

I will never accept riches or fame as a substitute for equality.

Neither of those people, including Turing, were rich or famous. The reason lies solely in his contributions and his tragedy.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Symbolic gesture
by earksiinni on Sun 16th Dec 2012 06:53 in reply to "Symbolic gesture"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

You claim that this would be a "symbolic gesture". What does it symbolize?

Reply Parent Score: 2