Linked by Kaj-de-Vos on Thu 20th Dec 2012 00:22 UTC
Syllable, AtheOS As the Syllable project predicted many years ago, version 3 of the REBOL programming language has finally been open sourced, under the Apache 2 licence (screenshot on Syllable Desktop). Also, the alpha version of the high-level Red programming language, supporting Syllable Desktop, has been released, by now in version 0.3.1 (screenshot, demo program, video at the Science Park in Amsterdam).
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RE[11]: Comment by cipri
by Kaj-de-Vos on Mon 24th Dec 2012 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE[10]: Comment by cipri"
Kaj-de-Vos
Member since:
2010-06-09

You reverse what happened. I worked for years to facilitate the original Syllable community. Then some people such as yourself went poisonous and tried to sabotage our work. We were forced to decide that we were not doing it for that part of the "community", but for ourselves and for the constructive part of the community.

Since Syllable is an open source project, the malcontents are free to fork the project. In fact, they did, sort of, and this turned out to be the extent of their capabilities:

http://pyro-os.org

Since you know everything better, you are free to join them.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[12]: Comment by cipri
by cipri on Mon 24th Dec 2012 17:51 in reply to "RE[11]: Comment by cipri"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

Then some people such as yourself went poisonous and tried to sabotage our work.


when i started the discussion by then it was with a good intention, because at that time stagnating and I didnt understand what was going on, and everybody was silent. Just later I understood, that already at this point it was already too late for syllable. In fact there would have been a little chance in that moment of the discussion. At that moment most devs except you, vanders and necroromancist.... where already not supporting you anymore.
You gave youself the title of "co-leader" (next to vanders), even nobody has elected you. Your work was mostly related to scripting and applying the patches of the others, and you stared to imagine that you are a great developer and need to decide the direction of syllable.

Kaj, i dont want to harm you feelings, but as a scripting guy, it's very unlikely that c++ devs, kernel devs, filesystem engineers,... will pop up to follow you and saying:"scripting guy, tell us what to do next."
Even if you can find "long term followers", they will be of about your own skill, or inferior. And with such a "team" of course you can't get anywhere.

The other strategy can be of course to borrow as much as possible from linux, but since syllable is quite buggy and misses a lot of "instrastructure".... the amount and quality of the ported software is (mathematically speaking) bounded.

related to pyro:
I must admit i tried to tell the people from pyro (syllable fork), that it has not much sense to fork a system like syllable that is not in clean compileable state, that is missing a lot of features, buggy, etc.... when they could have forked haiku, which has all goals of syllable (and from which syllable itself tries to copy, or to be compatible with), and which is in a much more advanced state beating syllable in every domain even at scripting (well, except perhaps at... wallpapers, syllable is better at this, since it seems they also put more effort in wallpapers than haiku).
But they insisted on syllable, and to me this behaviour seems like blind syllable-love.

Now kaj, finally, you are the king of syllable, the only problem is that the castle is broken and the servants are gone, and you need to live on credit and it's unsure for how long you can hide that the king is bankrupt.

I have no problem with syllable, but i would like to see real news about syllable and not this kind of fake news, because it reminds me that once, many years ago syllable the little os with a big future, and now it's clinically dead since years popping up with fake news.

If you dont have technical improvements to report, then instead of such fake news, i would really love to see honest interviews with vanders related to technical stuff related to syllable (e.g. he could explain how a native syllable driver differs from a linux one, etc.), related to his decission to step back from syllable. There is a lot of interesting information related to syllable/atheos/pyro that would make a nice read and from whoes history we all could learn something.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[13]: Comment by cipri
by Kaj-de-Vos on Mon 24th Dec 2012 20:51 in reply to "RE[12]: Comment by cipri"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

So let's see... Syllable was great. I was worthless. All the devs left because worthless me was somehow able to chase them away. The devs were united in their disgust of me, so they forked Syllable into Pyro. Seeing that only worthless me was subtracted from the Syllable project, Pyro went on to become a great success and conquer the world.

Hmm, somehow that doesn't add up.

Happy Xmas to you, too.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[12]: Comment by cipri
by demetrioussharpe on Tue 25th Dec 2012 03:18 in reply to "RE[11]: Comment by cipri"
demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

Since Syllable is an open source project, the malcontents are free to fork the project. In fact, they did, sort of, and this turned out to be the extent of their capabilities:

http://pyro-os.org

Since you know everything better, you are free to join them.


You know, not one single Pyro developer has commented on this story. We've stood on the sidelines & occasionally glanced at the arguments thrown back & forth, but we didn't get involved. In fact, since the fork, none of us have said anything negative to or about you. But now, you sit there & point at us in a mocking manner. However, you should know that we're actually not doing worse than Syllable. We're spending our time working on the actual OS, not on bullshit snatched from the far reaches of the web. Sure, defend your group, I can't blame you for that. But don't you dare try to do it at the expense of Pyro! We're quiet, because we're actually doing work. We're actually trying to take what we forked & actually make it more usable. By looking at your repository, it might actually seem as if you've done a lot of work, since you do commits. But, let's be honest here, you do commits to the core system for developers who don't actually have commit access. Once again, you're sitting here spreading lies about your developmental prowess, but nothing's actually being accomplished. Also, if you ported Mesa3D, why are you using PicoGL running against SDL as your libGL.so??? Somehow, you think that putting EVERYTHING on top of SDL will solve all of your problems, but you're sadly mistaken. I supposed you thought that you could create Syllable Server, & use it to control the direction of both Server AND Desktop. Unfortunately for you, you only succeeded in driving almost everyone away. Who knows, maybe the sun has set on Syllable Desktop, since you're not a system developer.

You've made your bed, so now it's time for you to lie in it, Kaj. You did this to yourself. Pyro WILL NOT take any of the heat for you. Instead, we'll continue to work on improving the system. When we're ready to make an announcement, we'll do so. When we do so, it'll be an announcement of substance, not smoke & mirrors.

The funny thing is that you used to talk about how far ahead of Haiku we were. The whole time, Haiku was blowing past us at lightening speed. Now, Pyro's doing the same thing to Syllable. Hmmm.....I wonder...will you guys still be stuck using less than 2GB of system ram in 2015 or even 2020? Sure, it's fine to have a system that can function with such limited ram; but, why should it have to???

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[13]: Comment by cipri
by Kaj-de-Vos on Tue 25th Dec 2012 14:24 in reply to "RE[12]: Comment by cipri"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

You have a very selective memory. Do you call this staying quiet?

http://www.osnews.com/thread?488246

There are many others like it. Be a man and get your own fork to work, instead of bashing Syllable and me to hide your own incompetence.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[13]: Comment by cipri
by zima on Tue 25th Dec 2012 20:52 in reply to "RE[12]: Comment by cipri"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The funny thing is that you used to talk about how far ahead of Haiku we were. The whole time, Haiku was blowing past us at lightening speed.

Looking at the bickering between Syllable and Pyro camps, Haiku looks even better now... (with how friendly and lively it is)

Reply Parent Score: 2