Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 3rd Jan 2013 21:23 UTC, submitted by Adurbe
Linux "Ubuntu, once the darling of desktop Linux and the overwhelmingly popular choice for newcomers, may soon lose that role to Mint." I switched to Mint KDE, and have no intention of going back. By the way, KDE4 is finally good (don't hit me, Aaron) - fast, fluid, stable, pretty, and thanks to its versatility, a joy to use after a few hours of tweaking. Just... Please, unify Plasma and the regular widget style. This is insanity.
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Comment by woegjiub
by woegjiub on Thu 3rd Jan 2013 23:09 UTC
woegjiub
Member since:
2008-11-25

Yet more unity bashing?

Wikipedia traffic shows that Ubuntu has more than an order of magnitude more users than mint.
The vocal minority that continues to decry the loss of the gnome2 desktop really need to get over the fact that there are a lot of people out there who *really like unity*.

If I switch back to KDE, it will be because konsole is better than gnome terminal, dolphin is better than Nautilus, and kwin is better than compiz.
I'll make it a unity clone with krunner serving as the dash and hud, though, and I will use kubuntu.

Hopefully the usage of Qt5 and QML for mobile Ubuntu means that they might port desktop Ubuntu to that, though.
The bad things in the Ubuntu desktop are all Gnome.

Edited 2013-01-03 23:10 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by Casey99 on Thu 3rd Jan 2013 23:31 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

Wikipedia's results have shown to be inaccurate numerous times. They always vary by quite a large margin compared to research companies that do actually do research. Because they are only one organization.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by woegjiub on Thu 3rd Jan 2013 23:39 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

They may not be the most accurate, when even statcounter and netapplications vary by a large amount, but the fact that they show over an order of magnitude in difference is too much to ignore.

Over 7 million downloads of 12.04, in the first 24 hours following release. Mint can't come even close to that, especially not with Ubuntu having professional support, and becoming largely adopted in enterprise due to its management tools.

Mint is a solution looking for a problem. Don't like unity, but want ease of use? Run kubuntu, xubuntu, gnome Ubuntu, or any of the other offshoots.
Clutching to the dead gnome2 as though it is some sort of sacred altar is ridiculous.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by Soulbender on Sat 5th Jan 2013 13:08 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

And instead we should take YOUR word for it . Yeah, ok. How about "No"?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by Savior on Fri 4th Jan 2013 07:56 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
Savior Member since:
2006-09-02

Yet more unity bashing?

...

If I switch back to KDE, it will be because konsole is better than gnome terminal, dolphin is better than Nautilus, and kwin is better than compiz.


So true. I have come to love Unity -- I've always been the Alt+F2-kind of guy; I simply loath looking for stuff in menus.

My only gripe with it is that it is barely configurable, and there are no activities, like in KDE (but even there, you cannot e.g. allow/disallow Nepomuk tags based on the current activity, so it also has some way to go).

Also, Gnome just cannot cut it on the application side; the KDE alternative is almost always better. Not to mention the locale settings cannot be customized, and you cannot set the locale only for the GUI.

I'll make it a unity clone with krunner serving as the dash and hud, though, and I will use kubuntu.


If you succeed, please let us know -- I'd just love a DE that's like Unity, but is not hold down by the Gnome legacy.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by woegjiub on Fri 4th Jan 2013 12:52 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

There is a KDE add-on that allows the use of modifier keys as individual keys. Apart from that, adding in the apprunner krunner add-on allows menu search.

Those in concert was all I wanted.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by ndrw on Fri 4th Jan 2013 11:28 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
ndrw Member since:
2009-06-30

Re: "unity bashing"

Unity isn't a bad idea, it is just poorly executed. For two releases it was an unstable and slow mess unsuitable for a production use. Now, when most issues have been ironed out, it is all the minor quirks and lack of configurability that come and bite you. Having said that, Unity has all the basic desktop features and I could imagine myself using Unity, which is a lot more than I could say about Gnome Shell.

As for the number of users, I am using Xfce on my laptop yet it still presents itself as a plain Ubuntu installation. I guess that will be the case for all Ubuntu (not just Unity) users unless they have explicitly installed a Xubuntu, Kubuntu or Lubuntu version.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by soulrebel123 on Fri 4th Jan 2013 19:57 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
soulrebel123 Member since:
2009-05-13

While it is probably true that Ubuntu has a gazillion more users than Mint, there has been a noticeable migration away from Ubuntu, which is a big trend reversal.

For a while Ubuntu seemed like the ultimate distro: good for the power user and the newbie. It really took over very fast and many were thinking finally a distro that can set a shared standard and reduce fragmentation by being just the best, something ISV can target to support Linux.

But now it is more like a different operating system, with its own interface and its own agenda, not just a well put together GNU/Linux distro.

There are many who want the real GNU/Linux OS, non this Ubuntu Linux OS.
The problem is not Unity per se, it's the fact that they clearly want to be radically different, not only from Windows and Mac, but also from other distros.
Unity might even be a nice software, but its not offered by any other distro, so to me it's almost like it's proprietary.

I think it's sad for the Linux ecosystem that they made such a decision, because we lose our champion against proprietary systems, but in the end they too will be damaged by the loss of supporters and contributors.

I myself have switched to Archlinux, after trying Mint and having found it too buggy.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by Soulbender on Sat 5th Jan 2013 13:40 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The problem is not Unity per se, it's the fact that they clearly want to be radically different, not only from Windows and Mac, but also from other distros.


I really don't see how that's a bad thing. The last thing the Linux dekstop need is more of the same old stuff. Ubuntu is a product and as such it needs to set itself apart from the "competition".

Unity might even be a nice software, but its not offered by any other distro, so to me it's almost like it's proprietary.


So by this same metric an awful lot of OSS software is proprietary. For example, a lot of RH stuff (like oVirt) only really support RH Linux.
Of course, neither Unity nor oVIrt is proprietary.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by zima on Thu 10th Jan 2013 20:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

While it is probably true that Ubuntu has a gazillion more users than Mint, there has been a noticeable migration away from Ubuntu, which is a big trend reversal.

But that's not what trends actually show http://www.osnews.com/permalink?548227
Ubuntu looks like the one distro really growing ...and targeted by 3rd party vendors now.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by bornagainenguin on Sat 5th Jan 2013 19:51 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

woegjiub posted...

Wikipedia traffic shows that Ubuntu has more than an order of magnitude more users than mint.


Yes, and of those numbers of Ubuntu users--how many are still running Lucid 10.04 LTS? Or Natty 11.04 despite the end of support only three months ago? I imagine some of those saw the writing on the wall and migrated back to Lucid, which as an LTS would be supported longer.

In fact support for Lucid 10.04 doesn't end until April this year. With a bit of luck some people might manage to piggyback onto the server release which has life until 2015! Isn't it a bit early to decide that simply because the system is running Ubuntu still it means that users have accepted Unity?

Isn't it much more reasonable to assume that the facts aren't completely in yet, and won't be known until it is no longer possible to run Gnome 2.xx on an official Ubuntu release?

woegjiub posted...
The vocal minority that continues to decry the loss of the gnome2 desktop really need to get over the fact that there are a lot of people out there who *really like unity*.


Are we really a minority? Really? Personally I hated Unity from the beginning from way back when it was still called Netbook Remix. It simply didn't work as well for me as Gnome 2.xx did. I've tried it over and over again at the insistence of trolls like you who insist that if I'd give it another chance I'd grow to love it--if I only really really really tried it with an open mind, I'd like it as much as you do.

I never have. It simply doesn't work as well for me as the old Gnome 2.xx way of doing things. By the very presence of that vocal number of users who say the same I'm not alone in thinking so.

You want to run Unity as your desktop? Great! No one is stopping you, we just want to continue using the wonderful Gnome 2.xx desktop that drew us to Ubuntu in the first place. Why is that so threatening?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by ricegf on Sun 6th Jan 2013 02:12 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

You seem really desperate to not believe we're actually using Unity. Why?

Perhaps you should devote your energy toward happily promoting Mint or Debian or whatever, rather than promoting the idea that us Ubuntu users have secretly reverted to a really old server version (really???).

Edited 2013-01-06 02:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by woegjiub
by zima on Thu 10th Jan 2013 23:27 in reply to "RE: Comment by woegjiub"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

If you would actually look at those Wikimedia stats, you'd realise they list also some Ubuntu versions

In the latest available http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-10/SquidRepor... Ubuntu 12.04 sees some nice uptake. It clearly led to retiring of many older versions visible in the stats a year earlier, including a big drop in usage of 10.04 LTS ( http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-10/SquidRepor... )

Or you can just continue to cling to some conspiracy theories...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by woegjiub
by zima on Thu 10th Jan 2013 19:59 in reply to "Comment by woegjiub"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Hopefully the usage of Qt5 and QML for mobile Ubuntu means that they might port desktop Ubuntu to that, though.

They kinda did - Unity 2D was built on Qt technologies. Though it's retired now...

Reply Parent Score: 2