Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 2nd Jan 2013 19:05 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Expected, but still insanely cool: Canonical has just announced Ubuntu for phones. This is a new mobile phone operating system, with its own user interface and development platform. It's built around Qt5 and QML, and the interface reminds me of MeeGo on the N9. It's supposed to be on the shelves in early 2014, but the developer preview is out today.
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RE[9]: I want one!
by lucas_maximus on Sat 5th Jan 2013 00:28 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: I want one!"
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Only some components are standardized and covered by Microsoft Community Promise (C# language spec and CLI). The rest, which is the most of the framework, is closed, single-sourced, Windows-only, and owned by Microsoft. That's slightly camouflaged but nevertheless well known EE&E.


You are confusing the language with the framework.

VB.NET code runs on the framework, but is very different. There was IronPython and IronRuby implementations of each langauge in .NET, not sure if they are still actively worked on.

The promise itself is also questionable - it lists what you can do with the licensed software, which is incompatible with GPL and other copy-left licenses.


GPL v 2 is also in some respects incompatible with the GPL v 3.

How is listing what you can and can't do with it questionable? ... it tell you what you can and can't do.

It is too restrictive for big players like Google (if only because they would lose their right to sue/counter-sue Microsoft). And it is just a vague web page, written in English, not signed by anyone, "personal", addressed to a "you" (who exactly?) - good luck using it in a court.


You are supposed to fill it out ... FFS.

As for the language, both Java and C# are relatively uninteresting and were deliberately designed to be simple, not powerful. Arguing "which is better" is pointless, when even Ruby can offer more (not to mention Haskell or Clojure). Power of C# and Java comes exclusively from their frameworks, and in case of .Net the framework is Windows.


Irony alert!

Ruby got a lot of interest because of the Ruby on Rails framework.

Ruby is a lot simpler than either Java or C#. C# is a better Java, I wrote a lot of code in Java and once I moved to C# I find it hard to come back.

I have never seen a job listing for Haskell, and Clojure ... ??????????????????

Because of that C# doesn't even compare well against Java, where at least you have several major vendors (including the OS ones) implementing the whole framework, which designed to work with multiple platforms.


No they don't, they are all the Oracle JVM repackaged for Desktop OSes and the others might be using Java ME or similar.

Anyway C# is a programming langauge and not a framework, you are confusing the two.

Edited 2013-01-05 00:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[10]: I want one!
by ndrw on Sat 5th Jan 2013 01:57 in reply to "RE[9]: I want one!"
ndrw Member since:
2009-06-30

You are confusing the language with the framework.


Nope. Perhaps I should have made it clearer. I don't care about C# when there are tens if not hundreds of better and free languages out there. IMO, the only reason for using C# is .Net framework.

How is listing what you can and can't do with it questionable? ... it tell you what you can and can't do.


You are right - it isn't questionable. It is just incompatible with GPL and most other copyleft licenses.

Same with the "do not sue us" clause - I mentioned that Google wouldn't accept it but the clause also conflicts with GPL.

You are supposed to fill it out ... FFS.


Fill out what? And how am I, all employess/contributors, customers/users supposed to get the signature of someone from Microsoft? Mind you, the promise is "personal" and non-transferable.

I have never seen a job listing for Haskell, and Clojure ... ??????????????????


Precisely. That's because it isn't the quality of language that matters but the size and richness of the framework. Especially when you bet your future on the choice of the silo are you going to live in.

No they don't, they are all the Oracle JVM repackaged for Desktop OSes and the others might be using Java ME or similar.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines

Oracle is a nasty partner to work with but the list of vendors and platforms is still way longer than for .Net (=Microsoft&Windows).

Anyway C# is a programming langauge and not a framework, you are confusing the two.


No, I'm not. I hope I made it clear now that I couldn't care less about C# - the language (IMO not interesting and encumbered). .Net framework does have a lot of valuable features indeed but it is not opensource and is not available on any of the platforms I'm using.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[11]: I want one!
by lucas_maximus on Sat 5th Jan 2013 13:23 in reply to "RE[10]: I want one!"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

So basically you are saying you just don't like the language. That is fine.

You are still referring to them as the same thing when they are not.

C# is a language, .NET / Mono are frameworks.

Edited 2013-01-05 13:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2