Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 5th Jan 2013 14:53 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y And so this situation is starting to get ridiculous - and consumers are, as usual, caught in the middle of it all. Google has just blocked Windows Phone devices from accessing Google Maps on their phones. In addition, it also seems Windows Phone users are now restricted to the basic HTML version of the mobile GMail website. While understandable from a defensive perspective - Microsoft's extortion scheme targeting Android device makers and all that - it's still a massive dick move that only hurts consumers. Update: the media attention has worked - Google is backpedalling, and will remove the redirect. "We periodically test Google Maps compatibility with mobile browsers to make sure we deliver the best experience for those users. In our last test, IE mobile still did not offer a good maps experience with no ability to pan or zoom and perform basic map functionality. As a result, we chose to continue to redirect IE mobile users to Google.com where they could at least make local searches. The Firefox mobile browser did offer a somewhat better user experience and that’s why there is no redirect for those users. Recent improvements to IE mobile and Google Maps now deliver a better experience and we are currently working to remove the redirect. We will continue to test Google Maps compatibility with other mobile browsers to ensure the best possible experience for users."
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Brendan
Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

So as a web developer many hours extra are put into supporting IE. We only just stopped supporting IE7,and now you get a not supported/out of date browser warning. The web thinks nothing of that practice. The death of each new IE version is celebrated.


So you're saying that the reason (some) web browsers don't bother complying with W3C standards properly is that they don't need to bother, because web developers will work-around issues anyway?

In that case, the only people we should be blaming is web developers. They should comply with the relevant standards (and nothing else - no browser specific extensions); and if a browser sucks dog balls that's the browser developer's problem and not the web developer's problem.

Instead of putting many extra hours into supporting a broken browser, do nothing, or just add a warning at the top of the page.

- Brendan

Edited 2013-01-06 01:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think web devs can use browser extensions, but should also provide un-prefixed versions of said extensions to "future-proof" their site.

This way you get the best of both worlds:

- You can prototype with many browsers
- You can implementations which are in a state of flux separate
- You are sure to support the unprefixed version when the standard is ratified and less volatile.

So for example if "StandardA" is finalized, you can use a prefixed version of it for say IE if Microsoft's implementation differs (say they implemented a Working Draft) and you can always keep the unprefixed version up to date.

The bigger issue imo is that these things need to happen faster. It shouldn't take years for a group of people to agree on things. It reminds me of the US Congress.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

I think the "user agent" string should be banned, and replaced with something to indicate which standard/s the client supports.

This way you get the best of both worlds:

- Web developers don't need to prototype with many browsers
- Web developers don't need to care about broken implementations
- Web developers can easily support older or newer standards (e.g. if browser says it only supports HTML 3, then don't give it HTML 5)
- Browser developers that keep screwing things up end up having a reason to fix their broken puss

The bigger issue imo is that these things need to happen faster. It shouldn't take years for a group of people to agree on things. It reminds me of the US Congress.


There's a completely separate issue (most of the stuff designed by W3C takes an excessively large amount of work for browser developers to support correctly, because most of it is a "designed by committee" ugly and overcomplicated pile of puke that tries to be bad for many things instead of being good for one thing), but this doesn't change the basic idea that if you're adopting a standard you should adopt that standard correctly.

- Brendan

Reply Parent Score: 4

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

It not always possible to do that.

I like to keep my job and I work for a gambling website, saying to the head of products "I can't do that because it isn't standards compliant" would get me a right rollocking.

Reply Parent Score: 2

l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

In that case, the only people we should be blaming is web developers. They should comply with the relevant standards (and nothing else - no browser specific extensions); and if a browser sucks dog balls that's the browser developer's problem and not the web developer's problem.


Well, following that philosophy would've meant that Microsoft would've put out more standards-compliant IE versions earier? Like before or around IE6? Right? Yeah, right.

While I don't like what Google has done here, it also feels very hard for me to not to laugh when I hear Microsoft, IE and standards in the same sentence, paragraph even. Yeah, I have a long memory, especally in topics that have left a lasting negative impression.

However, Google's goals of providing service for everyone is, and will always prevail over any kind of browser wars, since it's part of a much bigger picture than "just" browsers. So this hiccup will fade and they'll make the eventual - if any 0 IE-specific changes and go on.

Treat this whole issue as just a poke towards IE from one of its "friendly" neighbors ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Standards compliance was a joke for every browser at the time of IE6, IE6 was created against a draft specification that was changed after its release.

Reply Parent Score: 2