Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Jan 2013 23:27 UTC
Windows So, a rudimentary jailbreak for Windows RT made its way onto the web these past few days. Open source applications were ported right away, and it was confirmed that Windows RT is the full Windows - it's exactly the same as regular Windows, except that it runs on ARM. Microsoft responded to the jailbreak as well.
Thread beginning with comment 547891
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[4]: Comment by saso
by WereCatf on Wed 9th Jan 2013 08:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by saso"
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

I think that times are changing. The mouse will augment the touch experience instead of touch augmenting the mouse experience, in pretty short order.


I really doubt that. Atleast my arm would get really tired very quickly if I had to always reach out to touch the display on my desktop, and it would not only be tedious, but also slower. On mobile devices the assessment is irrelevant as they don't use a mouse anyways.

Metro and the WinRT will evolve. I'm sure it will contain a bunch of Mouse and Keyboard specific improvements and some more flexibility in the near future.


One can only hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[5]: Comment by saso
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jan 2013 09:53 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by saso"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


I really doubt that. Atleast my arm would get really tired very quickly if I had to always reach out to touch the display on my desktop, and it would not only be tedious, but also slower. On mobile devices the assessment is irrelevant as they don't use a mouse anyways.


I don't know, people say this, but I have absolutely no issue using my Surface for an extended amount of time while it has its stand out on the table.

I do think once an OEM perfects the "convertible" form factor that what I say will be much more realistic. Surface is already there, but Surface is just one device of many.

I interact with my Surface 90% of the time with touch, and the rest of the time I use the Touch Cover, often with the stand out.

Switching between apps, semantic zoom, scrolling is all usually done via touch. Its really not much more reaching than a pure tablet.

Though I can see on a Desktop how reaching out to touch those big All in Ones would get tiresome. I'd suggest using a touch sensitive trackpad or mouse there.


One can only hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


Why wouldn't you hold your breath? WinRT improved leaps and bounds during the Betas and that was just from Beta -> RTM . Post RTM I'm sure they're working on making the thing less rough around the edges.

There are definitely broken aspects of WinRT when it comes to Mouse+KB that make apps suck more, and its not something inherent to Metro, but more how the underlying XAML platform handles Scrolling and UI Virtualization.

I've spent probably more time than I'd like making sure my app works well on Mouse+KB, and they've said that my issues and others like it are scenarios they're looking at for the future. I think they hear the feedback pretty clearly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by saso
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 9th Jan 2013 10:01 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by saso"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

No window management = pile of shit. As simple as that. Unless Metro gets proper window management, it's nothing but a pointless toy on desktops/laptops.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Comment by saso
by WereCatf on Wed 9th Jan 2013 12:06 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by saso"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I have absolutely no issue using my Surface


Didn't I just say that mobile device are irrelevant in this context? Try using a 24" display, sitting on the table along with a keyboard, mouse and all the usual desktop accessories and see how much you like reaching over all those to poke at the screen.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by saso
by mistersoft on Wed 9th Jan 2013 16:40 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by saso"
mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

. The mouse will augment the touch experience instead of touch augmenting the mouse experience, in pretty short order.


..My thoughts in your reply to the above comment..
i.e. "I really doubt that."...are the following:

Personally I've yet to use Metro/Win8/WinRT either via Touch or Keyboard and mouse(apart from v briefly in passing on other people's machines)

But that said, I've thought several times about how touch interfaces and keyboard/mouse control might marry up better in the future. And my personal hope on that front is that some company, Wacom being the obvious choice with their existing expertise in touch and graphic tablet screen -via their Intuos, and more relevantly their Cintiq line, will come out with a tablet specifically designed as a fancy PC(/Mac) input device.

Rather than have to design complicated host machine drivers for essential a 'dumb' usb peripheral device - I personally reckon the best route to have it be a 'plug in anywhere' device would be have it basically be an low to mid range android tablet hardware wise but with a matte anti reflective screen and really good multi-touch. Non-slip mouse pad style backing. Pressure sensitivity for artistic or in-depth design work would NOT BE THERE or you'd be undercutting their own Cintiq line etc(for instance); That *should* also allow much lower costs. And sales could be huge I reckon.

Basically - whether or not you had built-in Android functionality/app capability as a bonus -
The MAIN/PRIMARY functionality of such hypothetical device....and here's my point....would be to have the device mirror your primary 24" screen to use as a " 'simple' multi-touch pad with a picture". And the big point of this for me would be (A)to facilitate the mouse-pointer 'landing' on the screen where-ever exactly your finger hits the 'video-touch-pad' --thereby removing the ever-so-slight but almost eternal annoyance of having to look for the pointer upon grabbing the mouse. Plus (B)would also facilitate local touch and multi-touch gestures without having to reach out your arm --which would certainly get tiring as you've said. Also for those with the extra cash, and/or the need for finer control - having an entire touch-enabled 24" display available also, should you need it or want it, would simply become an occasional additional bonus if your main screen also has touch.

[[Personally I'd price such a 'tablet/touchpad device' at about the same as a Nexus 7(150GBP)though with a lower cpu and memory ; matte screen ; direct USB-screen mirroring and simple Mac/win/Linux self-installing plug-n-play driver for the toggle switch etc -see below]]

Lastly - sorry for rambling(probably TL;DR i know) - but this type of set-up would allow much greater use of 'second'/'third'/'fourth' virtual screens, which I know are available on Mac but I never use, and definitely on Linux where I sometimes do, and on Windows -I'm not sure I've only ever had 2nd Hardware screen on windows. But anyway, yes, if you had e.g. photoshop tool palettes on you 2nd screen, email open on your third -whatever..; if you could toggle between these xtra virtual screen via a button on the bottom of your 'video-touch-pad' and then when you touched e.g. a toolpad, the mouse would appear at that point automatically toggled to the correct screen on your main screen (or not). All sorts of possibilities.

I've meant to - but never got round to emailing Wacom - might do that now. Can I be bothered to tidy up my ramble for the idea to be taken seriously.. hmm.
*Thanks for reading*

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by saso
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jan 2013 17:27 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by saso"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


But that said, I've thought several times about how touch interfaces and keyboard/mouse control might marry up better in the future. And my personal hope on that front is that some company, Wacom being the obvious choice with their existing expertise in touch and graphic tablet screen -via their Intuos, and more relevantly their Cintiq line, will come out with a tablet specifically designed as a fancy PC(/Mac) input device.


I love these kind of ideas. I think someone, or many people across many companies are thinking of new and innovative ways to change the way we interact with computing.

As for the rest of your comment, I didn't find it to be that much of a rant, and I agree with the premise of a lot of it. I'm excited for how we're going to use computing moving forward.

I think there's interesting things happening with using other screens to augment the main screen (Look at Smart Glass for example) but current implementations are primitive and rather clumsy. I think with some iteration they'll be on to something.

Reply Parent Score: 2