Linked by the_randymon on Wed 9th Jan 2013 00:48 UTC
X11, Window Managers Lead developer for Compiz, Sam Spilsbury, says he sees little need to develop Compiz for Wayland due to the increasing fragmentation of the Linux ecosystem. Spilsbury writes "What does compiz actually provide to users of these systems? [...] None of this functionality that user wants really depends on our compositing engine. There's nothing so special about our compositing engine that gives it a reason to exist [...] This is the real practical toll of fragmentation amongst the Linux ecosystem. It's not just that there are multiple implementations of the wheel. There are multiple implementations of entire cars which do almost the same thing, but a little different from everyone else. Some say this is the free software's greatest strength. Now that I know the personal and technical toll of fragmentation, I see it as its greatest weakness."
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RE[2]: Weakness
by Laurence on Wed 9th Jan 2013 10:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Weakness"
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

But this problem merely highlights what myself and many small shop owners have been saying about Linux for years which is thus: Linux is NOT AN OS, its a whole bunch of little programs made by guys that don't talk to each other that is magically supposed to seamlessly work together but which IRL does anything but.

Well yes, that why they're called "Linux distributions". The only people who pretend Linux is a single complete OS is people who do not know Linux.

This is also why I don't correct people who refer to Linux as Ubuntu; because almost always, they're talking specifically about Ubuntu and thus are actually more literally correct than techies who call 'Ubuntu', 'Linux'.


So I can't say as i blame him, if I were a developer I would be targeting Android not Linux. At least with Android its all controlled by a single company so all the pieces "just work" instead of having to worry that the audio guys changed a pointer somewhere and the DE guys didn't get the memo.

that's an odd statement because you wouldn't advocate someone writing a productivity suites in iOS instead of OS X. Some types of applications target laptops / desktops because they're the types of apps that work better for that paradigm of computer. So the only reason in favour for targeting Android would be if you were writing a mobile / tablet app rather than something that required an accurate pointing device and/or hardware keyboard.

You also need to bare in mind that the sort of application that Compiz is, isn't the kind of application that most app developers would be working on; and certainly not the kind of app that could ever be ported to Android.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Weakness
by lucas_maximus on Wed 9th Jan 2013 14:05 in reply to "RE[2]: Weakness"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

that's an odd statement because you wouldn't advocate someone writing a productivity suites in iOS instead of OS X. Some types of applications target laptops / desktops because they're the types of apps that work better for that paradigm of computer. So the only reason in favour for targeting Android would be if you were writing a mobile / tablet app rather than something that required an accurate pointing device and/or hardware keyboard.


I believe he was referring to the fragmentation between Linux distributions vs Something like Windows or Android which comes as a complete artefact from a particular supplier.

Edited 2013-01-09 14:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Weakness
by Laurence on Wed 9th Jan 2013 14:47 in reply to "RE[3]: Weakness"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I believe he was referring to the fragmentation between Linux distributions vs Something like Windows or Android which comes as a complete artefact from a particular supplier.

Yeah I appreciate that, his project could equally be accused of adding to the fragmentation as its a non-standard WM (though granted a highly popular "non-standard"). He's entire project is based on the principle that people can replace the underlying window manager behind their desktop environment of choice with another windows manager.

So I was more speculating about whether there was additional motives behind his rant.

There are a lot of changes happening in Linux which are doing more to push Compiz out of the market place (eg KDEs Kwin). So if his rant was purely about the fact that some distributions are adopting a replacement for X11 (which, to be fair, is fairly unpopular in Linux anyway, and up until yet, there hadn't been any viable alternative), then he's coming off slightly hypocritical given his architecture is designed to replace the desktops default.

I'm probably reading too much into things, and there certainly is an issue of fragmentation in Linux. But Wayland is one of the few instances where I think the re-engineering that's going on is deserved.

This is all purely opinion though ;)

Edited 2013-01-09 14:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Weakness
by jabbotts on Wed 9th Jan 2013 17:50 in reply to "RE[3]: Weakness"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Windows, Android and osX are each also distributions. The fact that only Microsoft can legally produce and ship Windows distributions doesn't change that.

Is there fragmentation within Canonical's standard Ubuntu build or within the bounds of any other distribution.. not so much. Perhaps around the same amount of fragmentation found within the bounds of the current Windows distribution version.

In terms of market fragmentation; about the same as the automobile industry.. or do we demand all manufacturers merge there car designs into a single product sku number?

(yeah I know.. old debate.. nothing productive going to come from this tangent of it either)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Weakness
by dsmogor on Wed 9th Jan 2013 14:19 in reply to "RE[2]: Weakness"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

OSX is moderately successful compared to IOS, Linux desktop is an utter failure (market share wise) when put against Android.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Weakness
by Laurence on Wed 9th Jan 2013 14:50 in reply to "RE[3]: Weakness"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

OSX is moderately successful compared to IOS, Linux desktop is an utter failure (market share wise) when put against Android.

Indeed, but my point was about computing paradigms.

I explained myself very badly, but what I was trying to say was that suggesting Android over GNU/Linux development (as he did) doesn't really make much sense because they target entirely different types of devices. However suggesting OS X or Windows development does make a logical (in the sense of comparing like for like) argument because they are all desktop OSs.

Edited 2013-01-09 14:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3