Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 16th Jan 2013 23:40 UTC
Windows Pokki is a start menu replacement for Windows - and it has already been downloaded 1.5 million times for Windows 8. "Since the launch of Windows 8, we've seen over 1.5 million Pokki downloads on the new OS itself and users opening the Pokki Menu an average of 10 times a day. These early numbers demonstrate that users enjoy being able to instantly access and discover apps, straight from the desktop." And this is just one of the countless replacements. Microsoft should've never kept the traditional desktop in there - they've given users the ability to escape Metro, and this will only hurt the new environment.
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RE[2]: Just a thought...
by Dekonega on Thu 17th Jan 2013 01:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Just a thought..."
Dekonega
Member since:
2009-07-28

I personally feel the review is just about right. I tried to use Windows 8 since the "Release Preview" as my primary Windows "desktop". And I gave up like two weeks ago, reformatted and returned to Windows 7 on my Windows box. The exact reason for this was that the "Windows 8 was unusable". It is "so poorly designed" that I was experiencing hard difficulties which were actually "preventing getting me getting my work done". I think Microsoft didn't care about the input their customers gave them during the development of Windows 8. There are bazillion of things which could have been done in much better fashion.

As for your question, maybe people just like, like to see, and search, what they want, instead of remembering the name of the application or object they're trying to find? :-)

Learning names of the computer applications for most of the common folk is very difficult. They don't want to learn stuff like that. They understand the system better if they can just see "a big blue e" icon which they know presents "the Internet" for them.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Just a thought...
by WorknMan on Thu 17th Jan 2013 03:21 in reply to "RE[2]: Just a thought..."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I personally feel the review is just about right. I tried to use Windows 8 since the "Release Preview" as my primary Windows "desktop". And I gave up like two weeks ago, reformatted and returned to Windows 7 on my Windows box. The exact reason for this was that the "Windows 8 was unusable"


Honestly, I don't really understand this mentality. If you don't like Metro, fine. But why go back to Win7? Once you actually get to the desktop in Windows 8, it is pretty much the same as Windows 7, with some new bells & whistles. As a self-proclaimed power user, I had no trouble adapting to the Metro start screen, mainly because I use it the same as I used the start menu in Windows 7:

In Windows 7:
Press the Win key, start typing the name of the application until it is selected, and then press Enter

In Windows 8:
Press the Win key, start typing the name of the application until it is selected, and then press Enter

It's the same damn process, but in Windows 8, it's actually a little faster. And of course, there are tons of start menu replacements available. As for Metro itself, I find it to be mostly useless (except for the Messenger app which gives me desktop notifications when I get a Facebook message), but its use is hardly mandatory. In fact, I forget it's even there 99% of the time. And it's not like Metro is slowing things down either, as Windows 8 feels at least as fast as Win7 did. If anything, it's just a little extra thing that's included with the OS.

So I'm puzzled as to why anyone would go back to Windows 7, esp with the benefits that Windows 8 offers - native USB 3.0 support, a much better task manager, native ISO mounting, taskbars on multiple monitors, hyper V virtualization, etc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8

Of course, I COULD go back to Win7, but it has absolutely nothing to offer me that Win8 doesn't. Plus, for $40 I got the Pro version (from Win7's Home Premium), so I can remote desktop in from any machine on my LAN.

Edited 2013-01-17 03:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by edwdig on Thu 17th Jan 2013 04:22 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
edwdig Member since:
2005-08-22

Well, here's my point of view:

I use most Start Menu features. My most frequently used apps are pinned to the task bar, my less frequent ones to Start. I use the submenus apps can create. For example, Start -> Putty -> Server is a nice shortcut. I use the shortcuts on the right side of the menu a lot.

If I'm not sure what I'm looking for and have to browse the Start menu, the new menu sucks. The large buttons mean you don't fit much on screen at once and make scrolling slow. The default view of not showing everything doesn't always work, and it doesn't scale up well if you show everything.

The Win8 Start menu is hard on the eyes when it opens up - the full screen flash and all the animations as things come in. I flinch every time it opens - only a little now, but it was more drastic in the beginning.

The new desktop theme sucks. Everything is too flat. Buttons don't stand out enough. It just takes longer to find buttons with the new subtle style.

The new Explorer interface is awful. It was much easier to use without the ribbons.

I worked with Win8 for about 6 months. I could be productive on it, but in the end, I'm far more productive on Win7. The OS level improvements in Win8 are pretty minor, but the UI changes are a pretty big setback. It's not even close, Win7 is far better as far as I'm concerned.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by ze_jerkface on Thu 17th Jan 2013 08:09 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

In Windows 7:
Press the Win key, start typing the name of the application until it is selected, and then press Enter

In Windows 8:
Press the Win key, start typing the name of the application until it is selected, and then press Enter


Let me fix that for you:
In Windows 8:
Press the Win key, start typing AND METRO JUMPS IN AND SCREAMS HEEEEYYYOOOOOOO like annoying adware. Oh I'm sorry did I ask for playskool puke tiles to load when I wanted a program?


I shouldn't have to see a full screen animation when I want to launch a single application. That's freaking retarded.

Anyways "type n run" isn't faster if my hand is already on the mouse. Furthermore I have over 50 items in my start menu at work, do I need to go memorize them all for Windows 8? Some I only use twice a year.

I also have multiple versions of the same program so "type the program" becomes an incredible waste of time as I have to hover over the icon to look at the path.

I and others listed dozens of problems that start screen causes on the Windows 8 blog. Instead of utilizing common sense as a 5 year old would do and make Metro optional Sinofsky decided to censor the most damning criticisms and force his grand vision on us.

But I guess we developers were wrong and Sinofsky was right as seen by what a hot seller Windows 8 has turned out to be. I mean what better evidence of Windows 8 being a great idea than the third party market that has been created to fix the goddamn thing.

Edited 2013-01-17 08:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by ricegf on Thu 17th Jan 2013 10:45 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

And of course, there are tons of start menu replacements available.


Oh, no, there goes Microsoft copying Linux again!

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Just a thought...
by Lion on Thu 17th Jan 2013 03:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Just a thought..."
Lion Member since:
2007-03-22

I hate that video.
If you break down everything he says it comes out as "it's broken because I couldn't figure out how to do it"
I'll concede to his review that the discoverability is pretty awful, but to say that the whole OS is unusable because he didn't bother to find out how the new behaviours work is a bit of a stretch.

Personally I prefer win8 to win7. I realise I'm in the minority and any post I make is not going to change a single mind. But it's an easier adjustment than I had when I first tried Linux after being exclusively a Windows user, and I had a lot less reading to do before becoming productive.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by Drumhellar on Thu 17th Jan 2013 04:25 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Heh. I didn't know The Control Panel shows up in the Desktop folder (But, I know why it isn't on the desktop itself, since it's hidden via the display control panel by default)

But, when I want the Control Panel, I either search for it via the start screen, or go to the charms bar and click settings, or right-click in the bottom left (Where the start menu used to be). Also, the time-honored method of typing "Control Panel" into the location bar in an Explorer window.

Yeah. This guy's review is garbage.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by ze_jerkface on Thu 17th Jan 2013 08:19 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

But it's an easier adjustment than I had when I first tried Linux after being exclusively a Windows user, and I had a lot less reading to do before becoming productive.


Now there's an endorsement!

Windows 8.....it doesn't require as much reading as Linux!


Windows 8
It's not so bad
Just read the book
Don't buy the iPad
If you read that tutorial
I'm sure you'll find
Wait....where are you going? I didn't finish the jingle. Come back here and buy a Surface tablet!!!!!

Edited 2013-01-17 08:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by phoenix on Fri 18th Jan 2013 00:07 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

His 4 Cs are right on the money, though. *Especially* when using Metro apps.

There is no continuity with previous versions (which is something MS is extremely bad at; just look at MS Office from 95 through 2010).

There is no context given to the information on the screen (it's almost impossible to figure out just by looking what's a label, what's a link, what's a button, etc).

I forget the other 2, but they were spot on as well.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Just a thought...
by llorllale on Thu 17th Jan 2013 12:06 in reply to "RE[2]: Just a thought..."
llorllale Member since:
2013-01-17

I personally feel the review is just about right.


I think the tone is way off. The review comes across as someone jumping at the chance to ride the anti-microsoft-win8 wave and make a name for themselves. It's a whiney, non-productive review.

I tried to use Windows 8 since the "Release Preview" as my primary Windows "desktop". And I gave up like two weeks ago, reformatted and returned to Windows 7 on my Windows box. The exact reason for this was that the "Windows 8 was unusable". It is "so poorly designed" that I was experiencing hard difficulties which were actually "preventing getting me getting my work done". I think Microsoft didn't care about the input their customers gave them during the development of Windows 8. There are bazillion of things which could have been done in much better fashion.


I concede that I've only prodded around a bit in win8. I am still testing things out in a VM. I have come across some weird UI refresh bugs in some metro apps, but nothing catastrophic. And personally, I LOVE how clean the Metro interface is. It's not up to all tasks, but that's why you are still left with the classic desktop as an option!

As for your question, maybe people just like, like to see, and search, what they want, instead of remembering the name of the application or object they're trying to find? :-)

Learning names of the computer applications for most of the common folk is very difficult. They don't want to learn stuff like that. They understand the system better if they can just see "a big blue e" icon which they know presents "the Internet" for them.


Then these are not people looking to be productive I suppose. Which is what I thought was the point.

The tiles in the Metro start screen are a lot more readily identifiable than a long list of menu options, imho.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by r_a_trip on Thu 17th Jan 2013 14:03 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Then these are not people looking to be productive I suppose. Which is what I thought was the point.

It's time the "typers" learn to understand that "mousers" can be just as quick and productive with a good visually thought out interface as the "typers" are with their run dialogs. A good interface accomodates both types of users. Being a "typer" A. doesn't make you a power user, B. is just a personal preference. You are not a more advanced user just because you prefer a keyboard to a mouse.

TIFKAM is not a good "mousers" interface. It's intrusive, it has ginormous tiles on that start screen that take up valuable screenreal estate and it forces you to lose visual contact with whatever you were doing if you invoke it. We don't need icons the size of Manhattan, the old size was damn near perfect for use with a mouse. We don't need a start menu that eats all screen real estate and forces a cognitive context switch. Crummy as the old start menu is, it is much better at preserving the context in which you are working.

We are not afraid of change, but we want change that is significantly better. Not change that some other people can live with, because (luckily for them) it doesn't stomp over their previously acquired workflows and doesn't worsen their experience.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[4]: Just a thought...
by phoenix on Fri 18th Jan 2013 00:11 in reply to "RE[3]: Just a thought..."
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

A 2" blue square with a bit of white text on it, next to another 2" blue square with a bit of white text on it, nearly indistinguishable from each other, except for a tiny little app icon in one corner, is easier to use than a menu that puts just the icon and app name on it?

Being able to see only 12-ish items on a huge monitor, in a flat layout, is easier to use than seeing a nice cascading menu showing you where things are in a hierarchy, with nearly everything viewable at once onscreen (meaning, not the crappy Win7 Start menu)?

Are people who like the Metro Start Screen using 14" monitors or something?

Reply Parent Score: 3