Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 22nd Jan 2013 21:28 UTC, submitted by lemur2
Linux "If you consider NetApplications' data set, then Linux owns only about 1 percent of the desktop OS market and Windows has almost 92 percent. But if you consider all computing platforms, including mobile, than Windows has only 20 percent and Linux has 42 percent - and that would be in the form of Google's Android alone." No more or less legitimate than claiming Windows owns 92% of the market. It's all a matter of perspective.
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RE[4]: Marketshare
by WorknMan on Tue 22nd Jan 2013 23:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Marketshare"
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

This is a myth. The selection of commonly-used desktop applications (mail client, web browser, file manager & utilities, office suite, say photo management & editing, etc) for Linux, along with the lack of malware and crapware and the need for anti-virus, make desktop Linux a far better choice for most people, since most people by far are not gamers.


I didn't say Linux didn't have any commonly-used desktop apps. I said there are BETTER ones and a WIDER VARIETY of them on other platforms.

it is an utter myth that desktop Linux is deficient, except for the fact that most people are not offered a convenient and cost-proportionate way to purchase it pre-installed on decent hardware.


And if they were, you could kiss that 'no crapware' sales pitch goodbye. Need proof? Just look at all the vile shit that is done to Android. If you want a decent Android phone without somebody putting crapware all over it, you basically have one model a year to choose from, and even that one is nearly impossible to get at the moment. Oh, I have that phone btw, and it is awesome ;)

Edited 2013-01-22 23:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Marketshare
by lemur2 on Wed 23rd Jan 2013 00:46 in reply to "RE[4]: Marketshare"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"This is a myth. The selection of commonly-used desktop applications (mail client, web browser, file manager & utilities, office suite, say photo management & editing, etc) for Linux, along with the lack of malware and crapware and the need for anti-virus, make desktop Linux a far better choice for most people, since most people by far are not gamers.


I didn't say Linux didn't have any commonly-used desktop apps. I said there are BETTER ones and a WIDER VARIETY of them on other platforms.
"

There are indeed a wider variety of desktop applications on other platforms, but they are not any better.

"it is an utter myth that desktop Linux is deficient, except for the fact that most people are not offered a convenient and cost-proportionate way to purchase it pre-installed on decent hardware.


And if they were, you could kiss that 'no crapware' sales pitch goodbye. Need proof? Just look at all the vile shit that is done to Android. If you want a decent Android phone without somebody putting crapware all over it, you basically have one model a year to choose from, and even that one is nearly impossible to get at the moment. Oh, I have that phone btw, and it is awesome ;)
"

Actually, as it happens, I am typing this message on a consumer laptop machine that came pre-installed with Ubuntu and no crapware. I purchased it via a customisation page similar to the one linked below, by selecting "Ubuntu" and failing to select any version of Windows.

http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/configure.asp?c1=3&c2=1...

Installing "crapware" is normally a way that OEMs use to offset the cost of Microsoft software they install on machines. If the OEM does not have to pay for Microsoft software, there is no need to offset such costs, and they can deliver a desktop/laptop machine with no crapware and the consumer can still save $AUD109 for the desktop & OS software alone compared with the exact same machine pre-installed with Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium or Microsoft Windows 8. An additional $AUD235 can be saved by not using Microsoft Office 2010 Home and Business Edition as the office suite. This is a significant saving, considering that the hardware itself is $AUD599.

... and it will have BETTER desktop software, and be far easier to maintain and keep running well, as a bonus.

The only real problem is that consumers are forced to shop online & really hunt around to find a great desktop Linux deal such as this, it is not commonly available in bricks & mortar stores.

Here is a glimpse of the desktop & OS software I am running right now, as I type this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ-JOo-tF_Y

"It is a delight to use KDE right now".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQWVJPLjig

"Kubuntu 12.10 - Fun and Flashy Linux" - "I really like what I see".

Edited 2013-01-23 01:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Marketshare
by WorknMan on Wed 23rd Jan 2013 03:17 in reply to "RE[5]: Marketshare"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

here are indeed a wider variety of desktop applications on other platforms, but they are not any better.


Of course they are. If you go and look at websites sporting Linux alternatives for commercial software, they are mostly inferior knock-offs of their commercial counterparts. This, of course, isn't ALWAYS the case, but is so the majority of the time.

Installing "crapware" is normally a way that OEMs use to offset the cost of Microsoft software they install on machines


How do you explain then the crapware on Android devices (and seeming lack of it on Windows Phone)? I know a lot of people blame carriers for this, but even wifi-only tablets like the Asus Transformer models come with it as well.

In other words, crapware is not strictly the domain of Windows. It is also possible to get Windows machines without crapware if you shop around (Including Microsoft stores). It's not like crapware comes preinstalled on a vanilla Windows disc, Metro on Windows 8 not withstanding ;)

Edited 2013-01-23 03:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Marketshare
by unclefester on Wed 23rd Jan 2013 08:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Marketshare"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

I had a look. The Pioneer laptop seems to be extremely poor value at the current price of AUD600 (including GST).

You can readily buy a high quality (Acer, Asus, Toshiba, HP etc) Windows 7/8 model with much better hardware for equal or less money from a number of Australian retailers eg Officeworks, JB HiFi or Dick Smith.

My Acer V3-571G absolutely shits on the Pioneer hardware wise. It was cheaper and came with Windows 7 and Office preinstalled. It also has excellent Linux support.

ps I use Linux and Windows.

Edited 2013-01-23 08:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Marketshare
by BallmerKnowsBest on Wed 23rd Jan 2013 17:48 in reply to "RE[5]: Marketshare"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

There are indeed a wider variety of desktop applications on other platforms, but they are not any better.


Right, we'll just take your word for it. Because it's certainly not as if Linux advocates have a illustrious history of dishonest exaggerations, or doing absurd things like claiming that GIMP is on par with Photoshop...

Actually, as it happens, I am typing this message on a consumer laptop machine that came pre-installed with Ubuntu and no crapware. I purchased it via a customisation page similar to the one linked below, by selecting "Ubuntu" and failing to select any version of Windows.


Too bad that small online-only OEMs like that typically don't include crapware on their Windows PCs, either. So if we apply your reasoning, then in looks like Linux is irrelevant to whether or not a PC has crapware - it's the size of the OEM that matters. Or at least that's the way it looks when you don't conveniently leave out relevant details.

Installing "crapware" is normally a way that OEMs use to offset the cost of Microsoft software they install on machines. If the OEM does not have to pay for Microsoft software, there is no need to offset such costs, and they can deliver a desktop/laptop machine with no crapware and the consumer can still save $AUD109 for the desktop & OS software alone compared with the exact same machine pre-installed with Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium or Microsoft Windows 8. An additional $AUD235 can be saved by not using Microsoft Office 2010 Home and Business Edition as the office suite. This is a significant saving, considering that the hardware itself is $AUD599.


You'd have to be hopelessly naiive to actually believe that. Take any big OEM that currently bundles crapware with their Windows PCs - there's no way in hell they would stop bundling crapware if they switched to selling Linux PCs. Instead, they would look at like this: "Hey, if we bundle crapware with Linux PCs, then we'll make even MORE money from it."

But I guess it's easier to believe some simplistic myth where OEMs would stop bundling crapware AND pass the savings on to customers, if it weren't for big mean Microsoft.

"It is a delight to use KDE right now".


"Kubuntu 12.10 - Fun and Flashy Linux" - "I really like what I see".


What, you couldn't find any more generic-sounding hyperbole? You left out "tour de force" and "rollercoaster thrill ride of excitement." And I assume, of course, that it has an ending that will leave me breathless.

Edited 2013-01-23 17:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Marketshare
by zima on Tue 29th Jan 2013 23:07 in reply to "RE[5]: Marketshare"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

a consumer laptop machine that came pre-installed with Ubuntu and no crapware [...] Installing "crapware" is normally a way that OEMs use to offset the cost of Microsoft software they install on machines. If the OEM does not have to pay for Microsoft software, there is no need to offset such costs [...] The only real problem is that consumers are forced to shop online & really hunt around

There is a category of Linux computers which are very popular with consumers, chiefly responsible for large Linux sales share: Android smartphones. Certainly no hunting around is necessary.

And guess what... they typically include crapware (UI "enhancements" alone would be counted as crapware on Windows PCs...). In the appstore, also a lot of essentially malware/spyware.

PS. Generally, understand what your posts accomplish; nobody better than you, lemur2, unites Windows and Linux users that frequent here - even Nelson gets upvoted ( http://www.osnews.com/thread?549981 ). As for me & KDE... http://www.osnews.com/thread?550536

Edited 2013-01-29 23:10 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2