Linked by the_randymon on Fri 25th Jan 2013 09:21 UTC
Linux After about a year of work, the ArchLinux distribution now offers a variant running on the FreeBSD kernel. Says the developer, "Why would I do this? If like me, you enjoy FreeBSD and love it, but also like the philosophy behind Arch Linux, which is a fast, lightweight, optimized distro, I figured why not combine the both. Even though you could just do it on FreeBSD using the ports, not everyone wants to compile." This now puts Arch in the same category as Debian with Debian GNU/KFreeBSD, which offers a Debian userland on top of a FreeBSD kernel.
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RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510
by Laurence on Fri 25th Jan 2013 12:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510"
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

Oh, I'm pretty cool with that, it's just I sometimes try to exit Notepad.exe by pretty <esc>wq.

haha +1
I've done that in so many GUI editors I've lost track!


The problem I had with Linux vs FreeBSD were mostly the command switches. Many I don't know, until I sit behind a Linux prompt and have to type them. On FreeBSD some are the same, some are not, some have different effects.

Yeah. Funny enough i did edit my post (sorry about the ninja edit there) to talk about that a little more.

The changes in switches are annoying, I'll grant you that. FreeBSD tends to be pretty good in supporting a lot of Linux's standards though - or it might be GNU supporting BSD switches. I can't recall off hand. But switching to Solaris is even harder in terms of switch incompatibilities.


As it was my desktop OS it made more sense to switch back to Linux as its desktop development went much faster than FreeBSD's and I already knew how it worked.

Nothing bad to say about FreeBSD though.

I appreciate that. I wasn't intending to criticise you there so I hope my comments didn't read that way. ;)

I was just expressing my own anecdotal evidence to anyone who might be interested.


BTW I'm tidying up my house and I found many more watches.

Oh nice one. I'm still yet to find an affordable watch I like (and I'm not about to spend a lot on a watch that's going to be warn everyday and thus accidentally banged into things.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 25th Jan 2013 13:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12


I've done that in so many GUI editors I've lost track!


It's amazing this is the one habit that people apparently mistakingly apply at the wrong places.


I appreciate that. I wasn't intending to criticise you there so I hope my comments didn't read that way. ;)


Oh, I didn't think that. I think FreeBSD is great so I wanted to make sure lurkers knew I didn't switch it for Linux because anything was wrong with it.


Oh nice one. I'm still yet to find an affordable watch I like (and I'm not about to spend a lot on a watch that's going to be warn everyday and thus accidentally banged into things.


You could adopt my strange behavior and have several watches for several occasions.

Right now I'm wearing one I stole from the merchandise window of a bank, because I was well annoyed with them. So in a way I robbed a bank I guess. If you think about I paid for this watch several times already anyway.

We're planning to go to the jewelry shop this afternoon. I'm bring a few watches that need small repairs or a new battery. Also I'm bringing the Seiko UC-2002 pocket watch:

http://forum.pocketcalculatorshow.com/displayForumTopic/content/292...

I also have 2 keyboards to which it can dock, but the connection doesn't work so I'm hoping at the shop they might know some people who can fix it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by MOS6510
by Morgan on Fri 25th Jan 2013 19:46 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Right now I'm wearing one I stole from the merchandise window of a bank, because I was well annoyed with them. So in a way I robbed a bank I guess. If you think about I paid for this watch several times already anyway.


Wow. So, the law enforcement employee in me is in shock right now, but in reality I'm laughing my ass off! ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510
by sorpigal on Fri 25th Jan 2013 15:01 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

FreeBSD tends to be pretty good in supporting a lot of Linux's standards though - or it might be GNU supporting BSD switches. I can't recall off hand. But switching to Solaris is even harder in terms of switch incompatibilities.

Oh my yes. Sometimes it's little things like the requirement that switches to e.g. ls go *before* and not after the file list. Why? Historical reasons, or something; GNU figures out what you meant, the more traditional versions rely on the order.

At last FreeBSD (and to some extend other BSDs) are willing to include improvements when they are improvements. My favorite example: You can use -print0 with FreeBSD's find, an extension that AFAIK originally came from GNU. Now I understand why a lot of the crazy GNU extensions don't get adopted everywhere, but the fact that the most modern find distributed with Solaris doesn't support -printf or -print0 is just plain ridiculous. Is it any wonder that most Solaris admins' first act is to install the GNU file utils?

A favorite gotcha of mine: Conflicting utilities! FreeBSD supplies a watch(1), but it's not the watch(1) you've come to expect if you've used Linux. Little things like this can be frustrating. Then there are the "I didn't know that wasn't standard" things that are pretty much the same across all Linux distributions but which are actually Linuxisms and not the same elsewhere--things like behavior and usage of ifconfig/netstat, or managing disk partitions.

FreeBSD is, compared to its commercial brothers, a modern and forward-looking *nix that is extremely straightforward and logical. If you're coming from the oddities of traditional UNIX I'm sure it's a breath of fresh air, where Linux would be a much scarier radical departure. That said, coming from the Linux side FreeBSD seems needlessly stodgy and Solaris and other commercial Unixen can be positively asinine.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Comment by MOS6510
by saso on Sat 26th Jan 2013 23:36 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510"
saso Member since:
2007-04-18

Oh my yes. Sometimes it's little things like the requirement that switches to e.g. ls go *before* and not after the file list. Why? Historical reasons, or something; GNU figures out what you meant, the more traditional versions rely on the order.

It's because of xargs.

At last FreeBSD (and to some extend other BSDs) are willing to include improvements when they are improvements.

Solaris has for a long time included GNU equivalents in /usr/sfw. Modern Solaris and Illumos distros often include /usr/gnu/bin in your default PATH.

My favorite example: You can use -print0 with FreeBSD's find, an extension that AFAIK originally came from GNU. Now I understand why a lot of the crazy GNU extensions don't get adopted everywhere, but the fact that the most modern find distributed with Solaris doesn't support -printf or -print0 is just plain ridiculous. Is it any wonder that most Solaris admins' first act is to install the GNU file utils?

GNU tools are better in some respects (such as -print0 etc.) and only a fool would not use them. Many modern Solaris-derived distros (such as OpenIndiana) even install them by default (gfind).

A favorite gotcha of mine: Conflicting utilities! FreeBSD supplies a watch(1), but it's not the watch(1) you've come to expect if you've used Linux. Little things like this can be frustrating.

watch(8) was first featured in FreeBSD 2.1 from 1995, probably a lot sooner than the Linux watch was developed. If it's anybody's fault, it's probably the fault of the Linux guys for naming their utility by some conflicting name.

Then there are the "I didn't know that wasn't standard" things that are pretty much the same across all Linux distributions but which are actually Linuxisms and not the same elsewhere--things like behavior and usage of ifconfig/netstat, or managing disk partitions.

Well, disk partitions in particular were intimately tied to the hardware that the systems were developed on. Some people just have different ideas about how things should work - can't blame 'em, a lot of it really comes down to taste (such as ifconfig/netstat).

FreeBSD is, compared to its commercial brothers, a modern and forward-looking *nix that is extremely straightforward and logical. If you're coming from the oddities of traditional UNIX I'm sure it's a breath of fresh air, where Linux would be a much scarier radical departure. That said, coming from the Linux side FreeBSD seems needlessly stodgy and Solaris and other commercial Unixen can be positively asinine.

I'm a heavy Linux and Solaris user and I honestly can't follow your thinking here. Each system has its style and I consider neither inherently superior by design. So yeah, Solaris has some cruft that it has carried to implement such useless things as binary compatibility with older commercial software (who needs a stable ABI, eh Linux?), but on the other hand, some new stuff in Solaris was developed by people who put a lot of thought into it and it came out great: SMF, ZFS, FMA, DTrace, Zones, etc. Linux, at times, feels like a wild experiment of bedroom engineers, an asorted hodge-podge of "my pet project" ideas and really irrational design decision, but at times really great implementations and terrific performance (the networking stack has really matured and I find iptables' structure quite logical).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510
by Neolander on Fri 25th Jan 2013 15:27 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Oh nice one. I'm still yet to find an affordable watch I like (and I'm not about to spend a lot on a watch that's going to be warn everyday and thus accidentally banged into things.

I have an old Hamilton automatic watch, which my mother gave me about 5 years ago, as she was buying herself a new one. The fact that this little thing has survived my careless daily handling for so long suggests that your fears are unfounded. For a comparison, I have a hard time keeping cellphones in good condition for more than a year.

I did have to replace the glassy windows from time to time though, basically anytime it fell on it from more than 1m above. It costs between €20 and €40, depending on the shop which does it.

Edited 2013-01-25 15:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by MOS6510
by Laurence on Fri 25th Jan 2013 16:15 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I'm not scared of breaking it. I just wouldn't want to scratch anything that cost a substantial amount.

Think of it like clothes, I wouldn't wear a smart suit to do the gardening. But equally I wouldn't wear a cheap pair of jeans to a wedding.

So what I'm after is a watch that I'm not going to be too precious about rather than something more ornamental to wear for special occasions. I'm just yet to find a watch that's cheap, yet relatively sturdy and which reflects a little of my personality.

Reply Parent Score: 2