Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 12th Feb 2013 18:27 UTC
Windows "Imagine a phone that could run real Remote Desktop. Real PowerShell. Anything that can run on your desktop PC. Imagine 'phablet' form factors, similar to today's Samsung Galaxy Note 2, which could dock to a desktop setup and utilize an external display, keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals. Imagine a single set of APIs that work everywhere. Imagine that Phone isn't a whole separate platform, but an app. An app that runs on Windows. Real Windows. The Windows Phone team could never make that happen. But the Windows client team? You betcha. Make it happen, Microsoft. It's time to take the phone seriously." I have never agreed with Thurrot as much as I do right now.
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RE[2]: This guy is off his rocker
by WorknMan on Tue 12th Feb 2013 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE: This guy is off his rocker"
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

While the goal of sharing a platform between the two is ideal. Running the SAME uncompiled apps is not, in my opinion.


Why? Just like properly written Android apps have different UIs depending on if you're running them on tablet or phone, there's no reason why this concept couldn't be extended to desktop as well.

And I agree with you wholeheartedly on Windows 7. Having gone from XP to 7, it's quite underwhelming, when you consider about 9 years went by between the two.

I mostly agree with you about Win8 as well. If you leave Metro out of the equation, it's actually a better desktop OS than Win7; easily worth the $40 upgrade price I paid, IMO. But Metro in Win8 is a big ass burger with a side order of fries. I'm guessing it works better on a tablet, but the integration with 'classic' desktop Win32 (or lack thereof) seems very scatterbrained and poorly thought out. They probably should've held it back until Windows 9.

Reply Parent Score: 4

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

I found WinXP largely unusable for most purposes on a netbook. The thought of Win8 (and all it's glory) on a much smaller screen with no keyboard makes me cringe just thinking about it.

Also, in what way is taking Windows wholesale and adding a Phone app to it, taking the mobile phone seriously? That sounds to me like completely giving up on mobile and claiming that the Windows desktop UI is the mother of all UIs that will work on anything, even a phone... if you throw in a phone app. Horribly backwards thinking that I thought the last 5 years had handedly disproved.

Reply Parent Score: 1

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Also, in what way is taking Windows wholesale and adding a Phone app to it, taking the mobile phone seriously? That sounds to me like completely giving up on mobile and claiming that the Windows desktop UI is the mother of all UIs that will work on anything, even a phone... if you throw in a phone app. Horribly backwards thinking that I thought the last 5 years had handedly disproved.


You don't have to run the same OS on both in order for both to run the same apps, as long as it has mostly the same internals. They wouldn't be 100% the same across the board, nor would they necessarily be 100% compatible. For example, a phone probably doesn't need to handle printers, DVD drives, scanners, etc, and I doubt anyone would want to run Visual Studio on it either.

Reply Parent Score: 2

REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25

I would disagree, i initially had the same thoughts but i weighed up with what i wanted to do with my netbook.

I own a MSI U135DX which is a Atom N455 @ 1.66Ghz, i upgraded the RAM from 1GB to 2GB and also changed the HDD over to a SSD 60GB.

Personally with my netbook, i needed something small, pretty light to bash out work whilst i commute on the train. The first thing that struck me was a way to improve battery life, of course Windows 8 is designed around low power and most importantly tries to get the CPU to an idle state as soon as possible.

My apps are MS Office 2013, inc Visio and Project. Skitch, Evernote, Adobe Reader, Xmind (which requires Java) and a couple of image editors (PSP7, etc..).

So my choice was between Windows 7 and 8.

Linux was out of the picture as i couldn't get the battery life or reliable wifi, also getting out of sleep and hibernation was a little tricky. This machine i decided was not a tinker machine, it had to be a pick up and forget stability and consistency (and i do like linux, i tried ubuntu and debian on it).

When weighing up the choice between the two windows, i did go with Windows 8 mainly due to the low power, the start screen was not a big draw, however this is actually one of the biggest pluses.

The U135DX has a 10.1" screen, the start screen actually makes using the netbook a lot easier as the icons are not small and easy to hit when im traveling and having to use the small trackpad. (On a side note i think this is where MSI got it right, they sacrificed the trackpad size for a decent sized keyboard which is my primary input method, moreso than the mouse).

The start menu works so well on a netbook, Microsoft really skipped a potential market here, it might have kept some of the netbook people around. Coupled with the excellent power management, easier/cleaner UI which again is a lot easier to navigate (a lot of the buttons are touch optimised which means they are also easier to hit with a small trackpad).

The other thing i would have to give kudo's to microsoft for is the memory management, i don't know how they did it but Win8 will consistently boot using only 400-500Mb RAM, this may not sound much of an achievement in the linux world, but in the Windows world it's incredible that after two iterations the hardware usage is still shrinking.

The boot up speed is also very incredible, i know this is helped by the SSD, but i owned a Samsung ARM ChromeBook (one of the new ones) and Windows 8 is on par or sometimes only a second slower at booting, something i think could be improved even more if my MSI didn't have a BIOS but UEFI instead to create a faster POST.

The only thing you can't do is run metro apps, which is definitely not a negative, ive gone through the app store on my desktop computer and they are pretty rubbish, i think the weather and train times are the only ones i use on my desktop computer, the rest are slow, poor, almost beta/alpha versions with a massive lack of functionality (thats a separate rant)

I would really highly recommend considering/trying Win8 on your netbook, it's really incredible, it's improved the performance and battery life of my netbook which originally had XP Starter edition on it.

(slightly off topic) the experience was so positive that i gave Windows 8 another go on my desktop, i ignore the metro apps (as above) it's actually a good experience, the start menu is not great but ive come to accept/understand it so it doesn't trouble me, however whats kept me on it is the performance, it's noticeable faster and just more efficient than Windows 7, which i thought was already quite a well optimised experience.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


Why? Just like properly written Android apps have different UIs depending on if you're running them on tablet or phone, there's no reason why this concept couldn't be extended to desktop as well.


Because there's an entire layer between the Model and the View which needs adaptation, and while it may make sense on paper to re-use this plumbing across apps, it doesn't work that well in practice.

Windows Phone and Windows 8 have different navigation paradigms. They're both page based, but with differences in some key areas which affect how you cache data and handle events from the View.

In addition, Windows 8 comes with different interaction models in mind (Mouse+KB in addition to Touch) and if you're doing any Mouse/KB specific coding (meaning you move beyond the generic Pointer events) then that bit will need to be rewritten too.

Basically, I think we're pretty close on opinion, just state it differently. YES you can reuse the Model, and no I probably wouldn't re-use my ViewModel but I'd re-use a lot of the supporting classes in the VMs and a lot of the supporting classes in my Views. Its not so cut and dry, in my experience.

Still, the end result is like 80-85% code re-use, today, already. My criticism is that this could be more like 90-95% with some common sense improvements to the code base.

There will always be that 5% that has to be rewritten, and it's often not entirely View specific.

The problem becomes worse if you're porting to a platform with wildly different characteristics (like iOS) where it doesn't really make sense to use MVVM and MVC is much more prevalent and a more natural fit into the Core APIs. So it means you only really keep your Model and maybe some helper classes.

Android is an even wilder beast all together.


And I agree with you wholeheartedly on Windows 7. Having gone from XP to 7, it's quite underwhelming, when you consider about 9 years went by between the two.

I mostly agree with you about Win8 as well. If you leave Metro out of the equation, it's actually a better desktop OS than Win7; easily worth the $40 upgrade price I paid, IMO. But Metro in Win8 is a big ass burger with a side order of fries. I'm guessing it works better on a tablet, but the integration with 'classic' desktop Win32 (or lack thereof) seems very scatterbrained and poorly thought out.


I can agree that some of the Metro-Desktop interaction points can be better. For sure. I expect them to get better too, BUT I don't think they're as bad as people make them seem.

They don't make your PC unusable, or make you dramatically less productive, or whatever. They just take some getting used to. And you know what, going back to Windows 7 for me is a chore because I've gotten so used to what Windows 8 affords me in convenience.


They probably should've held it back until Windows 9.


I think they should've reprioritized some things, freed up some resources, and made a better Windows 8. But this is what we have for now until we see how Windows 8's first interim release plays out.

Reply Parent Score: 3