Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Mar 2013 10:35 UTC
Legal "Apple vs. Samsung initially ended with a billion-dollar verdict in favor of Apple, but there have been plenty of wrinkles since. This week brought about another, as Nokia filed an amicus brief on behalf of Apple, Inc. in the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. In the brief filed Monday, Nokia asked the court to permit permanent injunctions on the sale of Samsung phones that were found to infringe Apple's patents." In the meantime, the latest comScore figures for the US show that Windows Phone's market share actually declined during the launch of Windows Phone 8. It's pretty clear that, combined with the disappointing quarterly results for Nokia, the company is setting itself up for the future. In this future, Nokia's patent portfolio is worth more than their actual phone business, and as such, Nokia can't do anything but support Apple in this case, else the value of their portfolio goes down.
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It isn't about Samsung
by Nelson on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:17 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

This isn't about Samsung, or Apple. Its about the precedent that the ruling against Apple would have.

When Judge Koh denied Apple its injunction, it had wide ranging implication for every player in the industry. To be honest, I'm surprised that Nokia has been the only one to recognize the severity of the situation. The bar has been set impossibly high to get an injunction.

If Apple can't get an injunction after a Jury has found Samsung to be infringing to the tune of a billion dollars, then who the hell can get an injunction?

That's why Nokia is doing this. It isn't some nefarious Nokia-Apple alliance, but a peculiar alignment of interests.

I'm fairly confident that Judge Koh's ruling won't stand on this. Its too draconian a restriction. Apple clearly deserves the injunctive relief.

Now, a word on marketshare. To me, the numbers speak well for an OS who's principal OEM is supply strapped. Nokia can't make the things fast enough because they need to be deliberate with supply. Its a balancing act.

You can see this in countries like Poland, Russia, Italy, and other European companies where Windows Phone is sometimes in the double digits regionally there. It is undeniable that there, Windows Phone has great momentum and is catching on.

Sure Nokia is having issues in the US (though not really, given that they're more or less treading water in a rapidly expanding market -- and sequentially they were able to keep up pace with Android device sales in the US for January, which is no small feat. 360k vs 400k) but that can be worked through, especially since they've fleshed out their portfolio. T-Mobile getting the Lumia 510 will boost sales immensely, along with VZW getting a 920 variant and ATT getting another flagship.

Look, Nokia now has a Windows Phone 8 device for $180 dollars unsubsidized. That's low-end Android territory with an undeniably better user experience at the same price point. Nokia is getting very aggressive on the low end now, and surprisingly its with Windows Phone 8.

Reply Score: -1

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:23 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If Apple can't get an injunction after a Jury has found Samsung to be infringing to the tune of a billion dollars, then who the hell can get an injunction?


600 million.

Its too draconian a restriction. Apple clearly deserves the injunctive relief.


It really isn't. None of the so-called infringements were core aspects of a phone, and none were dealbreakers or makers. I.e., you don't ban an entire car from the market just because the shape of the steering wheel bears a passing resemblance to that of another car.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: It isn't about Samsung
by Nelson on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:35 in reply to "RE: It isn't about Samsung"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


600 million.


Quite clearly, the Jury awarded Apple around a billion dollars. The Judge disagreed, but that will be handled in a separate case.

At the time when the Judge made her ruling, the billion dollar figure still stood. Its important to point out, that even in light of this, apparently there was not enough to find for an exclusion order, which is worrying.


It really isn't. None of the so-called infringements were core aspects of a phone, and none were dealbreakers or makers. I.e., you don't ban an entire car from the market just because the shape of the steering wheel bears a passing resemblance to that of another car.


I don't really think anything you said above has any legal bearing on why Apple should get an infringement, and in fact, isn't even the argument that the Judge used.

A disagreement with the Judge's core reasoning is why Nokia filed its amicus brief.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by BushLin on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:27 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
BushLin Member since:
2011-01-26

"This isn't about Samsung, or Apple. Its about the precedent that the ruling against Apple would have."

Seems more likely it's simply about removing some competition in the hope of more sales but then I'm quite cynical.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: It isn't about Samsung
by Nelson on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:37 in reply to "RE: It isn't about Samsung"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


Seems more likely it's simply about removing some competition in the hope of more sales but then I'm quite cynical.


I don't think that's Nokia's play at all. Maybe it's Apple's, in fact, it's likely Apple's strategy. They're out for more blood than Nokia is.

Nokia's hand in this is that they need to protect their future ability to use injunctive relief as a negotiating chip. The bar being set so impossibly high threatens that and hurts their IP licensing schemes.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by MOS6510 on Thu 7th Mar 2013 11:39 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Apparently more and more WP phones have been sold, but the marketshare has gone down slightly percentage wise in the US.

So WP is on the climb in absolute numbers, but down a little big percentage wise.

I think it's still early days for WP8 and its marketshare will increase as it's getting more known, accepted and supported.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by dsmogor on Thu 7th Mar 2013 12:07 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

As far as Poland is concerned I've seen 4 WP devices in the wild to date, and I'm a bit crazy about getting to know what people have. About 2 times less than HTC. Samsung is dominating. IOS devices are also not hard to come by but nowhere near Samsung.
The Nokia wp ad posters have been all over the place for about 8 months, and they very good exposure in operators shop windows (much much better than Apple for example).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by static666 on Thu 7th Mar 2013 13:58 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
static666 Member since:
2006-06-09

You can see this in countries like Poland, Russia, Italy, and other European companies where Windows Phone is sometimes in the double digits regionally there. It is undeniable that there, Windows Phone has great momentum and is catching on.


In case of Russia or other Soviet block countries it is absolutely not surprising to me. Smartphone market share is substantially lower there than in developed world. Many people are still migrating from dumb phones, where Nokia was considered a top brand for years.

Majority of them don't even know what a joke of a manufacturer Nokia has become since then, but are being misled by aggressive advertising of the latest and greatest, better than Android or iPhone, platform.

But lol @ 3.1% global share and falling.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: It isn't about Samsung
by Nelson on Thu 7th Mar 2013 14:13 in reply to "RE: It isn't about Samsung"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


In case of Russia or other Soviet block countries it is absolutely not surprising to me. Smartphone market share is substantially lower there than in developed world. Many people are still migrating from dumb phones, where Nokia was considered a top brand for years.

Majority of them don't even know what a joke of a manufacturer Nokia has become since then, but are being misled by aggressive advertising of the latest and greatest, better than Android or iPhone, platform.

But lol @ 3.1% global share and falling.


Yes, Italy with 14% and the United Kingdom with 6%, or Finland with 17% sure are Soviet satellites. /s

Windows Phone has an overall 7% share and growing in Europe. Its doubled its share YoY in a lot of regions (including the US).

I think in light of this, along with more lower priced Lumias (a lot of the Eastern Europe WP sales are attributed to low cost Lumia handsets) you'll see Europe continue to make gains, and China start to pick up.

I'd caution you against being on the wrong side of history with your pessimism.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: It isn't about Samsung
by shmerl on Thu 7th Mar 2013 16:36 in reply to "It isn't about Samsung"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

It's not draconian since in essence Apple has no case at all - i.e. prior art. I'm not quite sure why the judge didn't bust the case altogether.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: It isn't about Samsung
by Nelson on Thu 7th Mar 2013 18:56 in reply to "RE: It isn't about Samsung"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Because the Judge doesn't share your primitive view on the law, and there is a proper legal procedure that Samsung did not follow.

They were over a month late with paper work in an instance. That's damn near negligent on behalf of Samsung's legal team.

Too many people put their faith in people that think exactly like you, and it was hilarious watching the reactions people had when the ruling came in. It reminded me of when conservatives in my country were so delusional, so blinded by pure ideology that they didn't see the tea leaves.

Reply Parent Score: 3