Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 8th Mar 2013 16:13 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Mark Shuttleworth: "I simply have zero interest in the crowd who wants to be different. Leet. 'Linux is supposed to be hard so it's exclusive' is just the dumbest thing that a smart person could say." He's right. Lots of interesting insights in this blog post - I may not agree with everything Ubuntu does, but at least it's doing something.
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RE[3]: Comment by Laurence
by Lunitik on Fri 8th Mar 2013 19:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Laurence"
Lunitik
Member since:
2005-08-07

I think these announcements are an invitation for community involvement. Now that they actually have something to show, meaningful discussion can happen around that.

Canonical have a single vision, and that is where they want to invest. They aren't taking away any choice, they are providing a new one. Lots of people say "why do that when you can fix this?" or "we already have this, why do that?" but such statements are very ignorant. Just look at the current landscape, people are complaining about Mir because they think Wayland is software and we already have Xorg. Weston isn't being used anywhere right now, and even Xorg developers don't understand that codebase. Wayland introduces a new protocol needlessly because Xorg developers created it to be a simplified version of the same. It just isn't necessary...

Linux is about freedom, but I don't think we understand what freedom is. It isn't necessarily true that if they weren't working on or using one thing, they would be concentrating on the thing you care about. Just as likely is that they'd simply not be in the space at all, not contributing anything - which was a complaint people leveled at Canonical for a long time.

People are supporting Android, has that taken away from support for desktop Linux? Who is complaining that Google is competing with Gnome, KDE or Xorg? Who is clamoring for Google to adopt Weston? Where are the app developers clamoring to implement Wayland in their software?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Laurence
by _txf_ on Fri 8th Mar 2013 20:18 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Laurence"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Weston isn't being used anywhere right now, and even Xorg developers don't understand that codebase. Wayland introduces a new protocol needlessly because Xorg developers created it to be a simplified version of the same. It just isn't necessary...


Just about everyone that works on weston and wayland has worked on X. The people working on Mir appear to be the ones that don't understand wayland and weston.

The main point behind everyone's derision is that they could have done everything Mir does on weston (or the wayland). The fact that they didn't understand this (or even ask the devs if it was possible) speaks volumes.

Canonical so far has sucked when doing Linux plumbing (i.e. few contributions). Even if they are correct in going their own way, they may lack experience about what works and what doesn't. They also lose community mentors that DO have the experience (Xorg and wayland devs).

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Laurence
by Lunitik on Fri 8th Mar 2013 20:40 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Laurence"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

For me, it is good they aren't particular familiar with those projects. I simply do not think that there is anything there that is beneficial to the use case Canonical is shooting for. The fact Wayland has reinvented the wheel in the IPC space is reason enough to balk at it, I think one of the key reasons for Mir - as can be seen in their docs about it - is that it is protocol agnostic.

What that means - as they point out - is that they can support X11 or Wayland or DBus, it is utterly irrelevant to Mir what everything is using to speak to each other, its job is to make sure everything ends up on the display as intended.

I would ask though, do you think Apple or Microsoft developers are familiar with Xorg or Weston? They seem to be doing pretty well in the graphics department. I would bring up SurfaceFlinger on Android too, but something tells me they probably are familiar with Xorg.

Edited 2013-03-08 20:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3