Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 8th Mar 2013 16:13 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Mark Shuttleworth: "I simply have zero interest in the crowd who wants to be different. Leet. 'Linux is supposed to be hard so it's exclusive' is just the dumbest thing that a smart person could say." He's right. Lots of interesting insights in this blog post - I may not agree with everything Ubuntu does, but at least it's doing something.
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RE[4]: Comment by Laurence
by _txf_ on Fri 8th Mar 2013 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Laurence"
_txf_
Member since:
2008-03-17

Weston isn't being used anywhere right now, and even Xorg developers don't understand that codebase. Wayland introduces a new protocol needlessly because Xorg developers created it to be a simplified version of the same. It just isn't necessary...


Just about everyone that works on weston and wayland has worked on X. The people working on Mir appear to be the ones that don't understand wayland and weston.

The main point behind everyone's derision is that they could have done everything Mir does on weston (or the wayland). The fact that they didn't understand this (or even ask the devs if it was possible) speaks volumes.

Canonical so far has sucked when doing Linux plumbing (i.e. few contributions). Even if they are correct in going their own way, they may lack experience about what works and what doesn't. They also lose community mentors that DO have the experience (Xorg and wayland devs).

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Laurence
by Lunitik on Fri 8th Mar 2013 20:40 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Laurence"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

For me, it is good they aren't particular familiar with those projects. I simply do not think that there is anything there that is beneficial to the use case Canonical is shooting for. The fact Wayland has reinvented the wheel in the IPC space is reason enough to balk at it, I think one of the key reasons for Mir - as can be seen in their docs about it - is that it is protocol agnostic.

What that means - as they point out - is that they can support X11 or Wayland or DBus, it is utterly irrelevant to Mir what everything is using to speak to each other, its job is to make sure everything ends up on the display as intended.

I would ask though, do you think Apple or Microsoft developers are familiar with Xorg or Weston? They seem to be doing pretty well in the graphics department. I would bring up SurfaceFlinger on Android too, but something tells me they probably are familiar with Xorg.

Edited 2013-03-08 20:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Laurence
by _txf_ on Fri 8th Mar 2013 21:30 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Laurence"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I would ask though, do you think Apple or Microsoft developers are familiar with Xorg or Weston? They seem to be doing pretty well in the graphics department. I would bring up SurfaceFlinger on Android too, but something tells me they probably are familiar with Xorg.


I suspect that Apple or MS have FAR more resources to throw at infrastructure than Canonical (and plenty of experience). Also It does help to know low level linux infrastructure. The fact that their critique of Wayland was utter BS does not bode well (if you're going to make a technical critique, you maybe should know what you're talking about).

The way Canonical has executed on their other projects does not leave me hopeful. Just look at the number of false starts with Unity.

SurfaceFlinger is a really bad example. Only recently has it become decent enough to compare to other display servers (with basic features like mirroring or changing resolution). It has taken several years to get to this point (SurfaceFlinger has been in development since the beginning of android, before its purchase by Google).

It also should be noted that they want Mir to be equivalent to SurfaceFlinger AND Xorg. That implies complexity that I just don't think they're prepared for. By the time they're done they will have reimplemented the Wayland protocol (SurfaceFlinger uses Androids Binder as an IPC).

Edited 2013-03-08 21:48 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3