Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 22nd Mar 2013 14:20 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu This could potentially be quite big for Ubuntu and Linux in general. Canonical and the Chinese government have announced a collaboration to build a version of Ubuntu specifically for the Chinese market, which will become the reference architecture for standard operating systems in the country.
Thread beginning with comment 556264
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Re:
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 22nd Mar 2013 19:42 UTC in reply to "Re:"
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

While X.org has never broken one of my updates. I'm sure its possible, especially if you use binary graphics drivers.

Its well known that linux does not keep a stable binary kernel abi.

What would you expect as a debate topic, exactly? Why keeping a stable kernel abi would be a good thing?

Although Xorg is getting close to being replaced by Mir and Wayland, these issues will most likely remain, due to the kernel abi.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Re:
by rft183 on Fri 22nd Mar 2013 20:18 in reply to "RE: Re:"
rft183 Member since:
2005-08-11

Yep, pretty much every time my X has broken, it was because of the binary drivers... Usually it is after a kernel update where the binary module doesn't update.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Re:
by AdrianoML on Sat 23rd Mar 2013 00:48 in reply to "RE: Re:"
AdrianoML Member since:
2010-08-13

Correction, the kernel does not keep a stable kernel ABI for the DRIVERS.
The Linux kernel can afford doing this since almost every single driver is built-in right into it and every ABI change can be made in sync with the included drivers. This does makes the life of binary drivers harder, but providing you have good vendors live nVidia always updating, even before the stable kernel and xorg comes out, you don't feel the pain.

You should only get in trouble when using badly maintained binary blobs like catalyst and a few wi-fi drivers. You might also be in trouble if you keep track of this manually, regardless of how frequently updated the drivers are by the vendor. That's why you should never manually install it if you aren't an advanced user, and therefore you should solely rely on the distribution for this task.

And just to make the ABI thing clear, the Linux kernel DOES NOT BREAKS THE PROGRAM ABI/API. It has been solid for over two decades. You can trow in a binary game from about the year 2000 like Unreal Tournament and it will happily run.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Re:
by Phucked on Sat 23rd Mar 2013 06:12 in reply to "RE[2]: Re:"
Phucked Member since:
2008-09-24


And just to make the ABI thing clear, the Linux kernel DOES NOT BREAKS THE PROGRAM ABI/API. It has been solid for over two decades. You can trow in a binary game from about the year 2000 like Unreal Tournament and it will happily run.


This! so much this!, I'm still running games and programs from the mid 90's on my 64bit Linux box.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Re:
by moondevil on Sat 23rd Mar 2013 06:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Re:"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

And just to make the ABI thing clear, the Linux kernel DOES NOT BREAKS THE PROGRAM ABI/API. It has been solid for over two decades. You can trow in a binary game from about the year 2000 like Unreal Tournament and it will happily run.


This is not true.

If you would be talking about commercial UNIX I would believe you, given how they keep backwards compatibility, but not when talking about Linux distributions.

Unless the application is statically linked, there is a high probability that the required dynamic libraries are no longer the same.

Additionally, around 2000 there were was the egcs/gcc war, so there is a high probability that an application around those days was compiled with egcs instead of gcc, which increases the probability of not executing nowadays.

And of course we also have the issue that not all distributions respect the LSB, specially around 2000, so the probability of an application not finding certain paths is high.

This is all motivated with the excuse that you can always compile from source and commercial closed software is not welcome anyway.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Re:
by lemur2 on Sat 23rd Mar 2013 10:20 in reply to "RE: Re:"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

While X.org has never broken one of my updates. I'm sure its possible, especially if you use binary graphics drivers.

Its well known that linux does not keep a stable binary kernel abi.

What would you expect as a debate topic, exactly? Why keeping a stable kernel abi would be a good thing?

Although Xorg is getting close to being replaced by Mir and Wayland, these issues will most likely remain, due to the kernel abi.



These issues disappear if you simply use the open source graphics drivers that come with the Linux kernel.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Re:
by moondevil on Sat 23rd Mar 2013 10:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Re:"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Which such if you are doing serious graphics programming.

One of the reasons I keep Windows as my main laptop OS.

Reply Parent Score: 3