Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 27th Mar 2013 23:33 UTC
Windows "According to Kevin Restivo, an analyst at IDC, the countries where Windows Phone shipments exceeded those of iPhone during the fourth quarter were: Argentina, India, Poland, Russia, South Africa and Ukraine. A seventh 'country' where Windows Phone shipments beat iPhone is actually a group of smaller countries, including Croatia, that IDC lumps together in a category called 'rest of central and eastern Europe'." Not bad. Unsurprisingly, these are Nokia countries.
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RE[7]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 28th Mar 2013 18:04 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

How? I don't understand what you are saying? How does pointing out that Google (amongst others) does not release details about how many of it's Nexus devices are shipped/sold translate into irrational hatred of Google?


Because my comment didn't mention Google, and wasn't referring to Google in any way, shape, or form. Yet, you felt the need to drag it into the mix yet again. It's almost... Compulsive.

You seem to think no data is as good or possibly better than some data.


Uh, my comment is the EXACT opposite of what you're writing here. The EXACT opposite. Here it is again:

"It's a dirty game, but at least the companies reporting 'shipped' are more honest than Apple is. It's just too bad many people fall for Apple's redefinition.

And yes, it would be great if everyone reported SALES numbers, including Apple, but they do not, and they have no obligation to do so. Even if they all did - I wouldn't trust their figures anyway. Companies are pathological liars."

We're seeing your cognitive dissonance coping strategies at work here again, live. I am fully agreeing with your position, yet it just doesn't register with you. You're so hell-bent on this delusional idea that I'm out for Apple that you conjure up all sorts of things I supposedly said.

It's... Fascinating. It truly is.

Edited 2013-03-28 18:04 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?
by Tony Swash on Thu 28th Mar 2013 19:53 in reply to "RE[7]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Because my comment didn't mention Google, and wasn't referring to Google in any way, shape, or form. Yet, you felt the need to drag it into the mix yet again. It's almost... Compulsive.


But my comment that you were referring to did mention Google, amongst other companies, as examples of companies that release no data on how their products are doing. You then say that Apple (a company I did not mention in my original comment) are somehow even worse on releasing data because they only release data on products shipped (a bizarre position in my opinion) so I asked if Google, Samsung or Amazon had released any data on products shipped, and once again this in your eyes becomes some sort of assault on Google.

Jesus man grow up, this is schoolyard pedantry .



And yes, it would be great if everyone reported SALES numbers, including Apple, but they do not, and they have no obligation to do so. Even if they all did - I wouldn't trust their figures anyway. Companies are pathological liars."


Of course they have no obligation to release any data - what are you their fucking lawyer!

My point is that that it would be good if companies released more data - even data on devices shipped - and that PR puff based on third party estimates are no substitute for real data.

Seeing as you have brought Apple into this I would point out that Apple's disclosure of actual product performance is far better and far more transparent that Google's, Amazon's or Microsoft. I also repeat my point which is that if a company reports audit-able product shipment figures at regular short intervals, say quarterly, then the number of products shipped and the number of products sold are essentially the same over time as sales channels can only be stuffed once and to a limited degree.

One final point, Apple are almost certainly not lying about their figures as they are included in Apple's SEC filing which is a formal financial statement submitted to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), and lying in it would be serious criminal offence.

Thom - on the transparency of product performance data Apple is better than the others. Just get over it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Well, to be honest, you both are sucking it up in this discussion where you're both talking past each other and spending more time debating the topics you want to debate instead of actually discussing a single topic. It happens to the best of us.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[9]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?
by cdude on Fri 29th Mar 2013 11:33 in reply to "RE[8]: SHIPMENTS or SALES?"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

the number of products shipped and the number of products sold are essentially the same over time as sales channels can only be stuffed once and to a limited degree.


Not any product shipped may go to sales channels. Returns, replacements, bundling (like buy one, get two), promotion (eg one Lumia for free to every AT&T sales), etc are all in shipments but not in sales. Also stuffed channels may get cleared in ways a larger number of shipped units are not sold but written off (like dumping extra cheap to selected markets).

If you only have shipments and lose for each sold device, like in the case of Lumia, one possible explanation could lay in the difference between shipped and sold units. We will never know while Elop runs around waving his shipment-numbers like they are actually sold and by customers used devices. I think the difference is huge in the case of Lumia and much smaller for iPhone.

Edited 2013-03-29 11:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1