Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 20:43 UTC
Gnome "The team is proud to announce the release of MATE Desktop 1.6. This release is a giant step forward from the 1.4 release. In this release, we have replaced many deprecated packages and libraries with new technologies available in GLib. We have also added a lot of new features to MATE." Look at those screenshots. This is what GNOME is supposed to be: elegant, understated, to-the-point. I should try this.
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Outdated
by timalot on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 21:18 UTC
timalot
Member since:
2006-07-17

Please... Why are there still these conservative people who like the windows 95 desktop still?

The OSX Dock/Ubuntu Launcher concept where running apps and favorite apps are accessed in the same way is much more intuitive. Especially on OSes with good virtual memory management, where leaving a program running for a long time doesnt matter. And computers with SSDs where launching an app is nearly as quick as switching windows to an already running app.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Outdated
by MacMan on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 21:33 in reply to "Outdated"
MacMan Member since:
2006-11-19

Please... Why are there still these conservative people who like the windows 95 desktop still?


I too am sick of the obsession with Windows 95 being the pinnacle of user interfaces. (yes, Gnome2 and KDE are clones of the Windows95 interface paradigm).

Really is simple, If you look at the age of most Linux users, chances are their first operating system was Windows95. Microsoft reinforced this as all subsequent Windows versions carried on the Windows95 interface (except finally a break with Win7).

So, Windows95 is simply what most people have been trained, or perhaps accustomed to using. Change is fundamentally disruptive, so anything that does not resemble Windows95 is met with resistance.

Originally I disliked Unity as it was buggy, unstable and incomplete, but I finally switched over from Gnome 3.6 and I'm fairly impressed with Unity (in Ubuntu 12.10), just wish Unity Tweak Tool was officially part of the control panel.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Outdated
by Sauron on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 23:04 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
Sauron Member since:
2005-08-02

Really is simple, If you look at the age of most Linux users, chances are their first operating system was Windows95. Microsoft reinforced this as all subsequent Windows versions carried on the Windows95 interface (except finally a break with Win7).


Errr... No. My first operating system was Sinclair ZX81 Basic. And what a load of B****cks, where did you think that one up from? I think you will find that most Linux users are middle aged and above, and started with a similar experience or even earlier.

That been said, I have to say I found Win 95's gui and interface quite familiar when I first used it as it wasn't that different from Amiga Workbench which I had been using for about 6 years prior to Win 95's release and with both of them at least you could get work done. With todays crop of desktop extreme flashy edition deluxe, they just get in the way of you doing anything while taking away any user settings to allow you to change the way it looks and works. I for one will not be using Windows 8, Gnome 3, unity or anything else that tries to glue a mobile interface on to my desktop. Then again as has been said before, it's down to user preference and people should be able to use what they want.
Mate Desktop is one of them that enables that choice and I say good luck to them.
/ end rant

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Outdated
by antonone on Thu 4th Apr 2013 06:03 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
antonone Member since:
2006-02-03

Why do you think that "a change" is something that is alien for most Linux users, since most of Linux users made a choice to switch to a whole new operating system?

Besides, I think you need to read the history of User Interface evolution.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Outdated
by Peter Besenbruch on Thu 4th Apr 2013 20:27 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
Peter Besenbruch Member since:
2006-03-13

I too am sick of the obsession with Windows 95 being the pinnacle of user interfaces. (yes, Gnome2 and KDE are clones of the Windows95 interface paradigm).


First, we don't obsess over the Windows 95 interface as the pinnacle of design interface. We obsess over 98SE as the pinnacle. ;) It was Windows 98 that brought in "quick launchers."

Really is simple, If you look at the age of most Linux users, chances are their first operating system was Windows95. Microsoft reinforced this as all subsequent Windows versions carried on the Windows95 interface (except finally a break with Win7).


No, I started with a Radio Shack CoCo, and moved to the TRS-80. I have used Macs, Atari STs, Amigas, DOS, and Windows 3.1, prior to using Windows 9x. Toss in a few early Macs, and submitting batch jobs via JCL to a mainframe, and I think I have a bit of exposure to computer interfaces.

I would argue that the point and click interfaces have more in common than they have differences. The commonality can be traced to the research arm of Xerox, rather than to Microsoft. Pointing and clicking was a good response to the possibility of using a mouse to move a pointer on screen.

So, Windows95 is simply what most people have been trained, or perhaps accustomed to using...Originally I disliked Unity as it was buggy, unstable and incomplete, but I finally switched over from Gnome 3.6 and I'm fairly impressed with Unity (in Ubuntu 12.10), just wish Unity Tweak Tool was officially part of the control panel.


And you highlight some of what I don't like about Unity, lack of configuration. A similar lack drew me to KDE over Gnome, and later to XFCE.

Worse, though, is Unity's failure to distinguish launchers from already running programs. That's something even some of the basic window managers manage.

That failure to distinguish occurs in other areas, such as search engines. Here the problem involves the failure to distinguish local vs. Amazon searches. Canonical crossed an ethical line with that one.

As for Mate, and Gnome 2 before it, it looks nothing like Windows 95, although it uses the same point and click interface (so does Unity, for that matter). Gnome 2 was a sensible, working interface. Its categories made a certain amount of sense. Microsoft never did enforce categories in its Start Menu, consequently it was usually a mess.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Outdated
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 22:04 in reply to "Outdated"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Please... Why are there still these conservative people who like the windows 95 desktop still?

Ever hear of this little thing called preference? Look it up.

The OSX Dock/Ubuntu Launcher concept where running apps and favorite apps are accessed in the same way is much more intuitive.

"Intuitive" is an over-used buzzword that to me doesn't mean squat; it has lost its meaning as people seem to just toss the word around in every context possible when talking about computers. Sorry, but there aren't too many parts of computers that follow the definition of "intuitive"... and that includes graphical user interfaces.

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[2]: Outdated
by timalot on Thu 4th Apr 2013 01:34 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
timalot Member since:
2006-07-17


"The OSX Dock/Ubuntu Launcher concept where running apps and favorite apps are accessed in the same way is much more intuitive.

"Intuitive" is an over-used buzzword that to me doesn't mean squat; it has lost its meaning as people seem to just toss the word around in every context possible when talking about computers. Sorry, but there aren't too many parts of computers that follow the definition of "intuitive"... and that includes graphical user interfaces.
"

I agree with Intuitive as a bad description. But given the last two points (VM, SSD) in my OP these allow the interface to be less complex because launching an app and switching to an app is the same action.

I really like this because is using a non UI technologies to make the UI more simple. Ie it's getting the computer to work for you instead of being anal about controlling the state of every app thats running on your desktop.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Outdated
by zima on Sat 6th Apr 2013 15:02 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Sorry, but there aren't too many parts of computers that follow the definition of "intuitive"... and that includes graphical user interfaces.

But there is less and more intuitive, on a spectrum, what he seemed to talk about...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Outdated
by marcp on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 22:36 in reply to "Outdated"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

"Newer" doesn't automatically mean "better". Unity, Gnome 3 and other new DE/WMs can be slow, buggy and complicated [when it comes to their architecture].
So ... some people risk and choose them, others go with the things that ain't broken and work for them.

I always preferred to use Openbox or XFCE4, just because it's much simpler/lighter than other DE/WMs. It does everything I need, so why using something else?
I dislike eye-candy. I prefer UIs that don't come in my way.

Of course, it doesn't mean I have anything against using KDE, Gnome or other DE/WMs. I just don't force my choice and my preferrence on others.
That's what I expect in return. As simple as that.

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE: Outdated
by NewTron on Thu 4th Apr 2013 00:32 in reply to "Outdated"
NewTron Member since:
2012-07-27

Please... Why are there still these conservative people who like the windows 95 desktop still?.

Please... Why are there still these newbies people who like SmarTV interfaces in his desktop computers still?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Outdated
by Yoko_T on Thu 4th Apr 2013 02:58 in reply to "Outdated"
Yoko_T Member since:
2011-08-18

Please... Why are there still these conservative people who like the windows 95 desktop still?

The OSX Dock/Ubuntu Launcher concept where running apps and favorite apps are accessed in the same way is much more intuitive. Especially on OSes with good virtual memory management, where leaving a program running for a long time doesnt matter. And computers with SSDs where launching an app is nearly as quick as switching windows to an already running app.


Because unlike "people" like yourself, we have something you all basically lack.


It's called a clue.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Outdated
by gagol on Thu 4th Apr 2013 05:29 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
gagol Member since:
2012-05-16

To me, it looks like the newer generation have traded religion for technology and church for corporation, and some of them are the new Jehova Witness trying to convince everybody that THEIR religion or church is the only one worth pursuing. At least they don't go door to door, yet...

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Outdated
by Soulbender on Thu 4th Apr 2013 08:23 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Congratulations, you're just as ignorant and prejudicial as the OP.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Outdated
by gan17 on Thu 4th Apr 2013 12:07 in reply to "Outdated"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

The OSX Dock/Ubuntu Launcher concept where running apps and favorite apps are accessed in the same way is much more intuitive. Especially on OSes with good virtual memory management, where leaving a program running for a long time doesnt matter. And computers with SSDs where launching an app is nearly as quick as switching windows to an already running app.

Going by that logic, any decent tiling window manager + dmenu is going to sh*t all over your "intuitive" desktop environment.

No wonder I run SpectrWM on OS X.

Edited 2013-04-04 12:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Outdated
by zcal on Thu 4th Apr 2013 17:42 in reply to "RE: Outdated"
zcal Member since:
2012-07-27

spectrwm... <3

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Outdated
by jessesmith on Thu 4th Apr 2013 13:51 in reply to "Outdated"
jessesmith Member since:
2010-03-11

Unity or GNOME Shell may be more intuitive, I'd be willing to agree to that, but I find the GNOME2/KDE style of interface requires far fewer steps to make things happen. I find Unity in particular easy to navigate, but whenever I use Unity or GNOME Shell it takes twice as many mouse clicks or key strokes to accomplish simple tasks. So while I suspect these newer interfaces are probably easier to learn, they also throw speed bumps in the way. Their reliance on 3-D support also prevents many people from using them. That is why I find myself coming back to MATE and KDE, because they are faster and don't rely on 3-D video support (a common weak point in most Linux distros).

Reply Parent Score: 4