Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 13th Apr 2013 20:14 UTC
In the News Martin Hedberg has interviewed Jean-Louis Gassee - founder of Be, Inc. and former Apple executive. We're looking at 45 minutes (part 1, 2, 3, and 4) of talk about operating systems an their future, so sit down, relaxe, and enjoy.
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RE: Martin Hedberg
by jared_wilkes on Sun 14th Apr 2013 12:32 UTC in reply to "Martin Hedberg"
jared_wilkes
Member since:
2011-04-25

I disagree however with garyd's statement that my doubt about Apples strategy have it's foundation in a GNU-cult mentality.


Maybe garyd is incorrect about the source of your feelings, but you certainly seem to be coming from one point of view, think that point of view is correct, and are unable to see the value of another point of view and because of this, you provide little valuable supporting evidence and end up stymied by the more thoughtful Gassée time and time again. So it seems very much appropriate to call your perspective and interview dogmatic.

What is really bothering me about Apple is that they are dictating what people shall use their platform to.


Many people do not feel this is so. They understand that Apple may have a preferred way that they think is simpler and easier that you should use (and they value this), or you can find a third party solution that isn't as simple and easy but provides more flexibility or you can choose another platform.

If Microsoft would have done this everyone would have been upset, but not when Apple does it. The examples I mentioned is not the only examples of their destructive closed strategy.


I didn't hear a single example that I felt held up whatsoever. What examples are you referring to?

Remember when you couldn't replace the battery in the iPod? It took a lawsuit to get them change their minds.


No, I do not. I remember a class action regarding defective batteries. I do not recall a lawsuit about being able to replace batteries yourself. I know for a fact that the situation remains unchanged: batteries are not user replaceable but can be by Apple or unsupported third parties or by individuals. This situation arose shortly after the original release of the iPod and remains so a decade later with all of their i-devices.

What happened to their "Think Different" motto?


It remains very much alive, with Apple doing things differently from how you'd like them to be and competitors copying Apple more than vice versa (centralized/curated app stores, agency models for selling content and apps, greater hardware/software integration, hardware having non-user replaceable batteries, full touchscreen, etc). What about "Think Different" to you means: open source and open hardware, the way Martin Hedberg would like it.

If a vendor treated me like that I would feel humiliated and angry.


This is what garyd is talking about. Can you get outside your own feelings to appreciate that a hundred million people feel diffferently than you?

When it comes to strategy and execution that Mr Gassée mentioned, I would like to say that there are times when they can't be separated from each other.


That's a theory. A theory that is unsubstantiated. Apple's history defies this theory again and again and again.

"Closed Platform" + "Success" + "Company Politics" = "Abuse of locked in customers". Just the same way as a government can't go unchecked. This applies even if the company is reasonably ethical.


If you want a temperant discussion, maybe you should use another word besides abuse. You come off as dogmatic, uncompromising, and peevish.

Read the history of IBM, DEC and Microsoft.


The strategies and histories of these 3 companies themselves are so divergent — not to mention how divergent each of these 3 are from Apple — I have no idea what point you want to make. Not to mention that, I presume, 2 of these examples occurred 30 years ago.

This nearly unavoidable cycle of abuse in closed platforms is something people in general and companies remember. As Mr Gassée himself said: You can't fool everyone in the long run.


There you go again... You also seem to only be looking at history through your biased lens again.

Maybe you don't agree with me on this but let's have a less tempered discussion about this topic.


You mean more tempered, less tempers — but that's just language. I think the discussion is occurring, but people are pointing out that you are losing because of dogma, lack of evidence, or a completely and utterly biased view of the evidence that contradicts your claims.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Martin Hedberg
by mhcreativeforum on Sun 14th Apr 2013 17:06 in reply to "RE: Martin Hedberg"
mhcreativeforum Member since:
2013-04-14

Well... Every opinion is a statement pro something or against something. I understand the "everything gets simple when one decide argument". However you can't use that argument on some of Apples "strategic" decisions. The ban of YouTube is an example of that. They limit the freedom of their customers, not because of adding value ,by making things simple, but of pure greed.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Martin Hedberg
by jared_wilkes on Sun 14th Apr 2013 17:18 in reply to "Martin Hedberg"
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Maybe you'd have a point if "they banned YouTube" but they haven't so I don't even have a clue what you're talking about.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Martin Hedberg
by darknexus on Mon 15th Apr 2013 16:04 in reply to "Martin Hedberg"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

The ban of YouTube is an example of that. They limit the freedom of their customers, not because of adding value ,by making things simple, but of pure greed.

What are you talking about? Apple didn't ban YouTube: they decided to stop maintaining their own Youtube app and allow Google to make one of their own. Incidentally this has meant less Youtube compatibility issues over all, plus a rise in third-party Youtube apps (my favorite being YouPlayer) that work far better than the one we'd been stuck with since it was first added to iOS. I'd call that increasing our freedom to choose our Youtube experience, not a destructive business decision. Same goes for Apple Maps: it had enormous problems when it first came out, but Google Maps hasn't been taken from you. Google now maintains it, and who do you think can do a better job maintaining a Google Maps app than Google themselves? Apple Maps has done some incredible things for those who have limited to no vision as well that Google still has not done, so it's an improvement for some of us over nothing. Some of us now have a choice, imagine that? A choice, I might add, that we do not have on any other mobile platform to date. Yeah, Apple is really limiting our freedom.
Why the hell would you pick nonexistent problems when there are actually legitimate problems with Apple's policies? You've continued this trend throughout all of your comments. I don't know if you are deliberately being stubborn or genuinely can't see how foolish you are making yourself appear, but it'd be best to take a step back and rethink your arguments. If you want to attack Apple, there are legitimate things you can talk about so I'd suggest you actually take some time to think about your arguments instead of having knee-jerk reactions to nonexistent issues. Here's a hint: start with inconsistent application of App Store guidelines, and unnecessary censorship. There, I gave you two for free. Start from the real problems and let's see if you can do a better job next time.

Reply Parent Score: 3