Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 16th Apr 2013 16:37 UTC
Windows Microsoft's Terry Myerson, corporate vice president of Windows Phone, talks about the competition. "With iPhone, I sense that it's running out of steam. With iOS, [Apple] just added a fifth row of icons. Android is... kind of a mess. Look at Samsung - there's clearly mutiny going on. The only OEM making money off of Android is Samsung." There's truth to all these statements, which makes it all the more surprising that Microsoft appears to be unable to properly capitalise on them. Sure, WP appears to be doing well in a few select markets, but by no means the kind of success Microsoft and (Nokia) was banking on. Microsoft will pull through. Nokia on the other hand...
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RE[2]: So what
by Nelson on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE: So what"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Windows 8 is selling. Its already sold tens of millions of copies. Soon hundreds of millions. I can't believe we still entertain this ridiculous notion that Windows 8 is somehow a dud.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: So what
by TechGeek on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:36 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

When you are going to sell millions of copies no matter what, its hard to call it a dud. However, considering the feedback from a variety of sources, I wouldn't call Windows 8 a raging success.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:44 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Sure, its had some mixed feedback and there's been some missteps along the way. By and large though, I don't think Redmond is losing much sleep over Windows 8 sales on PCs.

I think what troubles them more is seeing how tablets are selling, this is a sector they need to survive.

Also contrary to what most people on OSNews and most tech geeks desire, this includes beefing up the touch environment in Windows 8, not adding to the Desktop environment.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So what
by twitterfire on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:37 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

I can't believe we still entertain this ridiculous notion that Windows 8 is somehow a dud.


You're right. Windows 8 is a big success like Vista was before it. And people love to have that tablet interface instead of their desktops.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:42 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Do you know how many copies of Windows Vista sold? Do you know the size of the PC market?

I don't really think you have an appreciation for the scale of Windows. A "failure" like Vista, is more success than most companies ever see. Its not like it sold two copies.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: So what
by lucas_maximus on Tue 16th Apr 2013 17:52 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Vista sales were solid, like Windows 8 it was a transitional OS. Windows Vista now is basically Windows 7 with a more classic interface.

We have some developers using Vista at work, I don't hear a lot of complaints. I rather use Vista than the ancient XP which I was forced to used at my last place of work.

Edited 2013-04-16 17:55 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: So what
by zima on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 17:00 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

You're right. Windows 8 is a big success like Vista was before it.

Sarcasm aside, VistaSE (aka Windows "let's use the marketing trick of lucky 7") is quite universally adored. So we'll see about Win 8.1...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So what
by ze_jerkface on Tue 16th Apr 2013 23:50 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

Windows 7 would have sold tens of millions during the same period and they wouldn't have had to waste billions of dollars.

Windows 8 has poor reviews compared to 7 and is selling worse than Vista did during the same release period. It's a dud but if you want to play the denial game along with Ballmer then go ahead, you clearly have no shame when it comes to being a Microsoft apologist.

BTW I still haven't met a single .NET developer that has anything positive to say about Windows 8. But I'm sure you will write that off in your mind as not mattering just as Sinofsky did when we pointed out all the negative pre-polls.

The only reason Ballmer still has a job is because he can point to the billions of dollars that come in even though a monkey could run that company thanks to the market lock that Gates created. Oh well you probably have defense work to do here, I shouldn't take up your time.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Wed 17th Apr 2013 04:59 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Windows 7 would have sold tens of millions during the same period and they wouldn't have had to waste billions of dollars.


And when PC sales declined like they did recently? What then? Windows 8 is a forward facing product. Windows 7 was the same formula they've always used.

Microsoft redefined the PC segment with Windows 8 to include touch devices and hybrids. Without Windows 8, Microsoft would be relegated to an ever decreasing market segment with no way out.


Windows 8 has poor reviews compared to 7 and is selling worse than Vista did during the same release period. It's a dud but if you want to play the denial game along with Ballmer then go ahead, you clearly have no shame when it comes to being a Microsoft apologist.


That's only bad if you buy into the notion that Vista sales were bad, which isn't the case. I'd be extremely happy if Windows 8 was adopted as much as Vista was.


BTW I still haven't met a single .NET developer that has anything positive to say about Windows 8. But I'm sure you will write that off in your mind as not mattering just as Sinofsky did when we pointed out all the negative pre-polls.


You know that over 80% of the apps on the Windows Store are written in C# and .NET, right?

The whole "I speak for every .NET developer" bullshit that you keep spouting off about gets old fast. You're an extremely niche kind of developer, becoming even more niche by the day. And that's great for you, if you want to do that forever for an OS paradigm which further fades into irrelevancy, but it doesn't really entitle you to speak much on current or future technology. Especially technology you have not spent a day using.

Edited 2013-04-17 05:01 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: So what
by phoudoin on Wed 17th Apr 2013 09:54 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Yeah, sure, as OEM pre-installed system on new hardware. Business as usual.

I know I'm one who have no choice but to pay indirectly for Windows 8 when I bought my latest laptop. Which I erase ~2 days after opening the box to replace it with a more poweruser friendly OS.

If I had a choice, no W8 sale.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Wed 17th Apr 2013 15:06 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yeah, sure, as OEM pre-installed system on new hardware. Business as usual.

I know I'm one who have no choice but to pay indirectly for Windows 8 when I bought my latest laptop. Which I erase ~2 days after opening the box to replace it with a more poweruser friendly OS.

If I had a choice, no W8 sale.


I really don't think a majority of people do what you did, so your anecdote is irrelevant.

My point was to counter the notion that Windows 8 isn't selling. That's wrong. It is.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So what
by JAlexoid on Wed 17th Apr 2013 10:00 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Simple explanation. 10s of millions of copies for Windows is a failure. Not because the absolute number is small, but because it's Windows. There are a shitload of articles comparing the uptake of Vista, 7 and 8. Most of them come to a conclusion that 8 has lower uptake than Vista, which was acknowledged to be a dud by Microsoft.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Wed 17th Apr 2013 15:08 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Its actually not so bad, I just didn't want to straight up quote licensing figures because its not a 1:1 correlation to user installs.

I'm not aware of any figure for Vista during the same time period, which would give a much clearer picture of the difference.

However these things are dumb to obsess over, given the elongated upgrade cycles on PCs. There could be plenty of reasons why right now, sales are softer than historically, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will remain like that forever. I think the factors are fairly external to Microsoft.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So what
by ricegf on Wed 17th Apr 2013 10:57 in reply to "RE[2]: So what"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

No less than the very respectable Dr. Dobbs journal stated yesterday that “it's now clear that Windows 8 is a fiasco”. Ouch.

http://www.drdobbs.com/windows/pulling-back-from-windows-8/24015304...

A few other quotes for you to explain away as "ridiculous":

"PC shipments dropped by 14% in the first quarter of this year...As IDC pointed out, it was the single biggest year-over-year drop since the company began tracking PC sales in 1994.

"Hidden in IDC's analysis was an unusual assertion; namely, that Windows 8 had not only not helped PC sales, but actually depressed them.

"When Win 8 came out, we bought a test machine with the new OS loaded on it, fairly confident that we'd need it for testing the inevitable batch of soon-to-arrive Metro apps. But these apps have not materialized... that Win8 test machine has been a long experiment in frustration. Microsoft's design decisions, both at the UI level and below, serve to continually get in our way... We shall shortly strip off Win8 and replace it Windows 7.

"Win8-specific apps have been a non-starter.

"the question is how fast Microsoft can fix their bet."

Pretty much matches my personal experience with the one Win 8 laptop we bought. Never again. Ug.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: So what
by Nelson on Wed 17th Apr 2013 14:58 in reply to "RE[3]: So what"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


A few other quotes for you to explain away as "ridiculous":

"PC shipments dropped by 14% in the first quarter of this year...As IDC pointed out, it was the single biggest year-over-year drop since the company began tracking PC sales in 1994.


Do you think an OS that was more like Windows 7 would've change this? I really don't.


"Hidden in IDC's analysis was an unusual assertion; namely, that Windows 8 had not only not helped PC sales, but actually depressed them.


Its useful to separate IDCs cold hard data from their conjecture. This becomes the gray area where I stop really taking what analysts say at face value. If you want to believe them, that's fine with me. I won't. I've been burned by analysts before.


"Win8-specific apps have been a non-starter.


Anyone not currently building a Windows Store app has a broken business model. It is a goldmine. Windows 8 is going to have a market penetration that is incredibly attractive to developers.

Being worried about this is just devoid of all reason. I can personally vouch for the attractive revenue that's to be gained.

Reply Parent Score: 3