Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 18th May 2013 21:33 UTC
Google Why does Google get so much credit in the technology industry? Why, despite the company's many obvious failings, do many geeks and enthusiasts still hold a somewhat positive view on the all-knowing technology giant? A specific talk at Google I/O this week provides the answer.
Thread beginning with comment 562006
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Comment by kragil
by kragil on Sat 18th May 2013 22:10 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

So Google wants to know which ads you might click. Apple and Microsoft want to know that too, for iAds and whateverMSads.

BUT Google is better than those two in regards to:

1. Software patents
2. FOSS
3. Copyright
4. Lock in
5. Standards
6. Takeout
7. Transparency
8. Price
9. Philantropie
10. Working conditions
11. Stance on China
12. ...

Sure they are not flawless(because they are a big corp) and Larry Page does not check each line of code a Streetview car runs and stuff, but they are far better in those respects than other tech giants IMO.

Reply Score: 24

RE: Comment by kragil
by bowkota on Sun 19th May 2013 11:19 in reply to "Comment by kragil"
bowkota Member since:
2011-10-12
RE[2]: Comment by kragil
by Vanders on Sun 19th May 2013 11:32 in reply to "RE: Comment by kragil"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Posting a link to someone's blog with no commentary of your own isn't a comment. Which bit of that blog do you think is actually relevant to the grandparent post?

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: Comment by kragil
by MysterMask on Sun 19th May 2013 12:35 in reply to "Comment by kragil"
MysterMask Member since:
2005-07-12

1. Try copying their pagerank algho ans see what happens.
2. As long as they can benefit. Pagerank isn't OSS
3. You mean because Google is invaluable for finding illegal downloads? Go ask some Copyright holders.

5. They voted for HTML5 with DRM

7. Ask them about Pagerank internas or why Google services take the top spot in search results.
8. You pay with your privacy
9. Not on par with Gates.
10. Oh sure. Android devices are not built in Chinas sweat shops. *sight*
11. What stance on China?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kragil
by JAlexoid on Mon 20th May 2013 00:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by kragil"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

1. Yandex and Baidu have done that. Both are massively popular in their respective countries, where that patent is not enforceable. You don't see Google whining about it.
2. Pagerank is not software. Learn what OSS stands for.
3. Google is no saint on copyrights in general, but they are one of the few that want a positive change. And Google is not against copyright holders and frequently act in their favour(DMCA takedowns)
5. Yes... and having a standardised DRM is worse than Silverlight here and Flash there?
7. They happily answer. Go read their replies to EU competition authorities...
8. And when did I lose my privacy?
9. Are you saying that anyone not donating as much as M&B Gates foundation is not worth mentioning?
10. Google doesn't make Android phones. NexusQ is made in US, by the by...
11. They didn't bow to pressure to sensor the search results and left the market.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kragil
by kragil on Mon 20th May 2013 09:23 in reply to "RE: Comment by kragil"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

As someone else pointed out you are very ill-informed.

Also:
The gates foundation does besides the good work on deseases a lot of fairly evil stuff:
http://dianeravitch.net/2013/05/09/is-there-any-organization-that-i...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by kragil
by kefkathecruel on Mon 20th May 2013 05:30 in reply to "Comment by kragil"
kefkathecruel Member since:
2006-01-17

So Google wants to know which ads you might click. Apple and Microsoft want to know that too, for iAds and whateverMSads.

BUT Google is better than those two in regards to:

1. Software patents
2. FOSS



On 1: It has its own model for revenue if you don't mind ads shoved down your throat 24/7.

On 2: Cause Google launched the initiative to turn KHTML into a working browser embraced by the entire world, all on their own, right?

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by kragil
by nej_simon on Mon 20th May 2013 11:44 in reply to "RE: Comment by kragil"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

1. What do you mean "ads shoved down your throat 24/7"? Google ads tend to be not intrusive or annoying unlike other ad companies.

2. No, but they have contributed a lot to the OSS community including being the largest contributor to webkit. Open source technologies developed for Android is now used by Jolla and Ubuntu. They sponsor open source development each year with their "summer of code" program etc.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by kragil
by JAlexoid on Mon 20th May 2013 13:25 in reply to "RE: Comment by kragil"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

A) And here I am... holding my phone that shows ads in mostly in non-Google apps.

B) You are aware that before Chrome WebKit was an engine that was barely used on desktop, right?

Hater I smell... to be more precise - Apple fanboi.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by kragil
by koffie on Wed 22nd May 2013 01:18 in reply to "Comment by kragil"
koffie Member since:
2010-05-06

Google better at FOSS than Apple? Hmm yes they are more prominently present, but you cannot claim Apple avoids FOSS. LLVM/Clang, Webkit, their entire kernel, Cups (used by every single Linux distribution as THE printing framework), ... Both companies use opensource as they fit. Google just makes more of a "we are FOSS" stance, but in reality? What part of their core products is opensource? Google search? Gmail? Google+? Don't say Android, which contains major closed source parts, and sometimes they just seem to decide not to release any sources at all for a new version.

Lock-in? Could you clarify? Inter-operability is higher on my list of important things for a platform, and Google seems to be closing everything down.

Better in regards to standards? So that's why Google is dropping RSS, CalDAV, CardDAV XMPP, ... What's next? Oh and let's not talk about Android not supporting ANY open standard regarding contacts or calendar syncing without buggy crappy 3rd party solutions. So is that "we love standards"? Some of their efforts for standardisation - how futile they may seem (think WebP or VP8/VP9) are good things - but these are also strictly out of self-interest. But Google+? How do I interact with that? Facebook is more open about that than Google, just think about that. Last google i/o was "everything integrated in G+". That smells like a lock-in to me?

Then, transparency? Seriously? Do you know what Google does with your data? What they know of you? Google has a very transparent side to them, yes, as long as it does not involve their core business. Yes they can be very open about certain things, but some people like to forget all the closed and secret things going on at Google.

Price? You pay for it with your privacy. Google actively working around privacy measures on iOS anyone? I'd rather pay someone with money when they're honest about what they're selling. Google is a company. They HAVE to make money somehow, and their main source of income is selling you to advertisers.

Working conditions? Google is a software company. Their core assets are smart people working for them, it's in their best interest to treat them extremely well. The hardware they sell is made by other companies who are just as well using giants like Foxconn, just as any PC or electronics maker does. So what is their stance on working conditions exactly? Are you sure no kid ever assembled a Nexus phone, tablet or Chromebook? Other Android phones are not Google's problem, so that makes it quite easy for them.

Then - stance on China. Apple is not in the "search" business, they do not have to bend to censorship, which Google did for a long time. I'd check up on this before saying stupid things. They want to do business in China just as much as any global company. They just have a very hard product to sell in a censored society.

As much as I like the "hacker" mentality of Google, they have a side they are hiding, and it shows more and more lately. A lot of the things they do don't seem to add up for me, and a lot of the decisions they make disturb me nowadays.

If put down money for an Apple product, I know what I'm paying for. Someone else is paying Google to keep me close to Google so they can harvest data. They used to do this with customer satisfaction, but nowadays I more and more feel like they are trying to push things down my throat (which all seems to come down to: Google+). Some of their services still are superior, and I will keep using them as long as they're happy.

But for RSS - I had to find something else. I was perfectly happy with google reader, but they somehow decided I, and a lot of other people weren't worth the trouble, and are killing it. Now I switched to newsblur, for which I payed with a smile, since now I know how this service is kept online and will not be killed off simply because someone decided it didn't bring in enough data for, or money from advertisements.

Reply Parent Score: 1